University of Utah allows guns on campus

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University of Utah allows guns on campus


Associated Press
Originally published April 28, 2007
SALT LAKE CITY // Brent Tenney says he feels pretty safe when he goes to class at the University of Utah, but he takes no chances. He brings a loaded 9 mm semiautomatic with him every day. "It's not that I run around scared all day long, but if something happens to me, I do want to be prepared," said the 24-year-old business major, who has a concealed-weapons permit and takes the handgun everywhere but church.
After the massacre at Virginia Tech that left 33 dead, some have suggested that the carnage might have been lower if a student or professor with a gun had stepped in. As states and colleges across the country review their gun policies in light of the tragedy, many in Utah are proud to have the nation's only state law that expressly allows the carrying of concealed weapons at public colleges.
"If government can't protect you, you should have the right to protect yourself," said Republican state Sen. Michael Waddoups.
Utah legislators and law enforcement authorities said they knew of no modern-day shootings at the university.
But one lawmaker cited a shooting rampage in Mississippi in 1997 as an example of how allowing others on campus to arm themselves can improve safety: After a teenager shot two students to death at Pearl High School, an assistant principal chased the gunman down outside and held him at bay with a .45-caliber pistol he kept in his truck.
Nationwide, 38 states - including Virginia - ban weapons at schools. Of those, 16 explicitly prohibit weapons on college campuses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. In other states, each school is allowed to formulate its own policy.
For decades, the University of Utah banned concealed weapons.
"Our view was that there was an increased risk of both accidental and intentional discharge of a firearm if more firearms are present," said spokesman Fred Esplin.
"It was a matter of safety."
But in 2004 the Legislature passed a law expressly saying the university is covered by a state law that allows concealed weapons on state property.
The university challenged the law, but the Utah Supreme Court upheld it last year.
Utah is easily one of the most conservative states, and the Legislature is dominated by Republicans, many of whom have a libertarian streak.
Utah has no motorcycle helmet law, for example, and there is strong affection for the Second Amendment.
The carrying of guns at the university worries students like Timmy Allin, a freshman on the tennis team from Dallas who feels safe on the 28,000-student urban campus.
Allin was not aware weapons were allowed on campus until told by a reporter. "I don't see the need for one up here, so that could only lead to trouble," he said.
Lawmakers point to a recent shooting at a Salt Lake City downtown shopping mall as evidence that concealed weapons prevent additional deaths.
Armed with a shotgun and a pistol, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic randomly shot nine people at Trolley Square, killing five, on Feb. 12. He died in a shootout with police.
An off-duty Ogden police officer carrying a concealed weapon - in violation of mall policy - pinned down Talovic with gunfire until other police arrived.
Some of those who work at he University of Utah said they feel more secure because concealed weapons are allowed.
"What happened at Virginia Tech might have been stopped," said Christine Zabawa, a medical researcher at the university. However, she said it is a bad idea to allow guns in dormitories, and fears an accident could happen during a party on campus.
"Alcohol and guns. It's a bad combination," she said.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na...,7663399.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines
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Well, at least one state has figured out the when folks are disarmed it only serves the criminal and not the people.
 
Hey, few people love guns more than Marines, especially infantry grunts, but I honestly believe that allowing guns on a college campus is a terrible idea. Think about how much more likely it will be for a Virginia Tech massacre repeat when you allow weapons on campus. I have no problem with allowing knives, and perhaps that makes me a hypocrit, but I think its a lot harder for someone to kill mass amounts of people with a knife. I, for one, am not at all pleased with hearing about them allowing guns on campus. I think we need to be smarter than that... HOWEVER! for the sake of argument, Ill concede the fact that a well armed college is a college better prepared to take down mass shooters (though civilians have little or NO professional training, and are likely to inflict more casualties stopping one crazy individual than prevent them).
 
LCPLSMITH said:
though civilians have little or NO professional training, and are likely to inflict more casualties stopping one crazy individual than prevent them
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Most folks that I know shoot better than LEOs and folks in the military. But than again most folks that I know are either FFL holders, prior service like me, LEOs like me, or they shot competition like me.

Still, I have seen most civilians shot better than some LEOs and military personnel.
 
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Tactically and safely, not to mention effectively taking out a shooter during a Military Operation in an Urban Terrain is a lot different than competition shooting. I used to compete too when I was a civilian, and there were some pretty good shots youre right, but that does not mean theyd be well enough trained to be able to make good decsions (i.e. whether or not to shoot at a shooter who has friendlies behind or around he or she). Would they have the state of mind to think those things through. I know during my deployment in Iraq, because of all my training with 1/4 out of Camp Horno, it was instinct. Though the adrenaline rushed, the training took over.. How many civilians have training like that? I would guess there are a lot more civilian gun owners than military ones. How many civilians know about the escelation of force?
 
I think at moments like that it comes down to basic instinct and your fight or flight response. Also not everyone is going to have a gun if they were allowed and most the people that would have a gun are of the type that for the most part know what they are doing.

History has proven to us that not allowing weapons has much more adverse effects than allowing them. But for some odd reason common sense here does not prevail, I say mostly because of a lack of education and understanding.

I went to a college that allowed fire arms, there was no problems. In fact the only problem was from a non-college student on campus brandishing a weapon in the gym during a pick up game of basketball.
 
Those are good points you made Donkey. I understand where you are coming from, but the school that i go to right now, the University of New Mexico, has a horrible gang problem. These "thugs" can barely keep their hands off eachother, and I know if they got the chance they'd use guns against one another. One deterrent, I believe, that has kept them from bringing their weapons on campus is the fact that we're not allowed to have them. I do understand where you all are coming from, don't get me wrong, but I do not believe that allowing weapons on campus is better in terms of consequences than not allowing them. I know, also, that drinking is rampid on our campus, and a bunch of gun toaten drunken fools :cheers: is not in the best interest of the students safety.
 
I have said it before and I´ll say it once more.
CCW permit the proffessors, teachers, counselors, janitors, cafeteria personel, librarians and so on and forth. (if trained properly).
Do NOT let the students themselves carry.
I base this argument on a few of the things the LCPL stated above.
 
KJ said:
I have said it before and I´ll say it once more.
CCW permit the proffessors, teachers, counselors, janitors, cafeteria personel, librarians and so on and forth. (if trained properly).
Do NOT let the students themselves carry.
I base this argument on a few of the things the LCPL stated above.
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I agree with you guys on this. I will say that the guns aren't the problem with people killing people. If they didn't have a gun they would get a bat, knife, sledgehammer, homemade bomb, etc. The main problem is, is that people anymore have never been taught to respect people and guns. I grew up the having guns around me. I never once thought of using it toward somebody because I was mad at them or got my feelings hurt. People are ridiculous and thats the problem. People are too touchy anymore they need to learn that things happen and life sucks but its just how it goes. Now in todays world they just want to cry about it.
 
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