Too Liberal

[tetvet]

Are Americans , American Whites , American Blacks , Browns , Reds and Yellows too liberal does our constitution apply only when needed , do our laws apply to some but not others , do some observe the laws at their convenience , a recent poll taken by Waters World Fox indicates that most people do not know what is covered by the 1st. Amendment though these same people use it daily , 8 out of 10 did not know who Joe Biden is , 0 out of 10 could find Syria on the map , why this has anything to do liberalism is that lack of knowledge leads to dumb .:drill:

 

[MontyB]

I personally think you have it backwards, I consider myself "liberal" and I know what the 1st Amendment is, who Joe Biden is and how to find Syria on a map.

I would however argue that it is in fact conservatism that is the problem, if you look at political map of the USA I would be prepared to bet that areas with the highest level of education are in fact also the most liberal where as states considered the most conservative are teaching creationism in there schools.

 

[tetvet]

I never mind to have it pointed out to me when I'm wrong , you haven't done so , cheers .

 

[mmarsh]

Watter's World is a FOX NEWS blog, which should tell you EVERYTHING about its objectivity and the reliability of its facts, (1. being a blog and 2. Being FOX NEWS's Blog).

I would therefore caution you on the word "dumb", because stating facts based solely on one of the most skewed, unbalanced, unfair "news" (and I use that term lightly) networks isn't exactly what most people would call a reliable source of information.

While I cannot say for sure, I suspect that Monty is correct. I would wage its Liberals that are more world-wise than conservatives, and I base this on personal experience being that I have have lived in both Liberal and Conservative States for several years.

 

[tetvet]

I can easily see that whatever you don't know isn't worth knowing , mer'de monsieur

 

[JOC]

I personally think you have it backwards, I consider myself "liberal" and I know what the 1st Amendment is, who Joe Biden is and how to find Syria on a map.

I would however argue that it is in fact conservatism that is the problem, if you look at political map of the USA I would be prepared to bet that areas with the highest level of education are in fact also the most liberal where as states considered the most conservative are teaching creationism in there schools.

That may have been true at one time but it's changed. The brain drain in the USA is to the South and West, I.E. conservative states. I was an engineer in the aerospace sector. I've seen the switch. States like Texas, the Carolinas, Maryland, Arizona lead the country in technology. Beside what does ones beliefs have to do with the ability to apply science and engineering?

BTW I don't think it's political. You could have liberals in the inner city or conservatives in the sticks without either getting education. It's sad to say but plenty of people are quite content to be just plain dumb, and could care less.

 

[TheManFromOz]

Hi,

I haven't posted a lot on this forum, but this topic caught my interest.

First I would say that I have personally tend to find that the more world wise are conservative. With Monty above finding the exact opposite, I thought about it for a while and I think the reason we find this is that, in my opinion, the two knowledgeable camps in politics tend not to collide, but will collide with the 'dumb ones' of the other side. This is, I think, due to the increasing ability to interact with those who belong to the same group as you do. However, the dumb ones of 'the other side' tend to make a lot of noise and get looked at, which only reinforces the tendency to think in this way.

What would you think of this guess?

 

[mmarsh]

That may have been true at one time but it's changed. The brain drain in the USA is to the South and West, I.E. conservative states. I was an engineer in the aerospace sector. I've seen the switch. States like Texas, the Carolinas, Maryland, Arizona lead the country in technology. Beside what does ones beliefs have to do with the ability to apply science and engineering?

BTW I don't think it's political. You could have liberals in the inner city or conservatives in the sticks without either getting education. It's sad to say but plenty of people are quite content to be just plain dumb, and could care less.

But if you look at the voting Demographics, many of those SW states are changing from red to blue. Texas, New Mexico (already solidly blue) and even areas in places like Arizona. This is due to the fact of the increasing Hispanic population and the fact that those technology jobs you mentioned are attracting people from both coasts as both Silicon valley and NY have prohibitively expensive to do business there now.

ThemanfromOz

I think its important to define what a "conservative" is. A conservative in one country maybe Liberal in another. For example, the rightwing UMP in France or UK would be considered a liberate-moderate republicans in the USA. President Hollande who is a left-wing socialist, has a far more militaristic FP than his rightwing predecessors.

I have been in Europe 16 years, and My conclusions is that the European Left is more left-wing than the left in the USA, and the European right is much more moderate compared to the American right. Even the FAR-RIGHT groups hold some views that would be considered leftwing in the USA.

Conclusion:

You cannot define is the world is too conservative or too liberal, too many variables.

 

[VDKMS]

The problem in the US is its president. Before him there were also liberal and conservative groups but Obama's mission is to destroy the conservatives. Look at what he's saying and what he is doing. Both different things. No president has ever created so much scandals and get away with it because his liberal cronies were put in the right places, the media, the judiciary (with Holden almost blocking every investigation), the IRS, you name it. He's also helped by liberal Harry Reed, the Senate Majority Leader, who refuses to let the senate vote on conservative bills. The president who said he has a phone and a pen, clearly disregarding the constitution of the US, and he knows it because he is a constitutional lawyer. In 2006 he voted against raising the debt limit to $9 trillion. Under his "leadership" and one expensive war less (Iraq) the US has now a debt limit of $17.2 trillion!! Allthough he promised his voters during his first presidential campaign to reduce the deficit by 50% in his first term. He started with a debt ceiling of $11.315 trillion, so that should have gone to $5.7 trillion not 17.2!
The problem with liberals is that they focus on minorities. Give them money to stay out of poverty. It doesn't work. You must give people opportunities.

I'll give an example from Belgium. I was with a Turkish immigrant proposing him a new job. But he said that if he would take it he would have less money than he gets now. He recieved unemployment benefits and when he takes a new job his rent of his social housing would go up and in the end he would have less money to spend (and needed to work 8 hours a day instead of being home all day).

I like conservatives.

 

[mmarsh]

The problem in the US is its president. Before him there were also liberal and conservative groups but Obama's mission is to destroy the conservatives. Look at what he's saying and what he is doing. Both different things. No president has ever created so much scandals and get away with it because his liberal cronies were put in the right places, the media, the judiciary (with Holden almost blocking every investigation), the IRS, you name it. He's also helped by liberal Harry Reed, the Senate Majority Leader, who refuses to let the senate vote on conservative bills. The president who said he has a phone and a pen, clearly disregarding the constitution of the US, and he knows it because he is a constitutional lawyer. In 2006 he voted against raising the debt limit to $9 trillion. Under his "leadership" and one expensive war less (Iraq) the US has now a debt limit of $17.2 trillion!! Allthough he promised his voters during his first presidential campaign to reduce the deficit by 50% in his first term. He started with a debt ceiling of $11.315 trillion, so that should have gone to $5.7 trillion not 17.2!
The problem with liberals is that they focus on minorities. Give them money to stay out of poverty. It doesn't work. You must give people opportunities.

I'll give an example from Belgium. I was with a Turkish immigrant proposing him a new job. But he said that if he would take it he would have less money than he gets now. He recieved unemployment benefits and when he takes a new job his rent of his social housing would go up and in the end he would have less money to spend (and needed to work 8 hours a day instead of being home all day).

I like conservatives.

Its precisely the opposite, its conservatives who declared jihad against Obama and it started even before he was elected President. I am not Obama's biggest fan but there is no question that the GOP made it there mission to destroy this man. Heck most of them wont even deny it.

"Our top Priority is to make sure Obama is a one term President". -Mitch McConnell who headed the Senate. FYI its not the Senate job to undermine the President and that's exactly what he admitted to.

Then came infamous "liar" remark during the State of the Union. No president has ever been interrupted and publicly insulted with giving a SOTU address. And it was done deliberately to further humiliate him.

Then there was the whole "birther" movement and the ugly spectrum of racism reared its ugly head. And YES the birthers are racist, its very hard to deny otherwise. I am not saying every conservative is racist or that there are no Liberal racists, but the birthers absolutely are and the GOP made them a political factor instead of tossing them aside as crackpots.

No President has ever created such scandal compared to Bush??? Not even close, Obama doesnt have 6000 dead servicemen on his hands for the lies he told. I get you don't like Obama but that's a completely unfair comparison.

The President doesn't do Senate business, what happens in the Senate is under the Control of Reid (and FYI Reid and Obama don't always get along). Reid can and has blocked conservative bills, its his right and its called Democracy. Its been that way the past 250 years, just like when McConnell blocked Democrat bills under Bush, when you are the MINORITY you don't get your bills passed. live on the fringe of society

The USA isn't Europe, minorities do not get the aids they would have gotten in Europe. That's why blacks live on the fringe of society, excluded from practically everything. I agree that minorities in Europe are far too pampered, but that isn't the case in the USA. Nobody can accuse blacks of living the good life when you look at the crime, unemployment, illiteracy, lack of health care, etc...

I am not a big Obama fan, but I am not hater either. I think he has done a Mediocre job (but infinitely better than Bush) but lets be accurate at what hes done and whats just conveniently blamed on him...which is everything. The fact is this, whether you like him or not. No president has been treated as badly as Obama has by the opposition.

 

[Yossarian]

I honestly feel America as a whole is rather divided, this overall weakens a nation's moral, as well as intellectual conscience.

One thing I notice is this fervent blaming and dysfunction over which side of the political spectrum is responsible for all our troubles is utterly useless and showing it's age.

In basic terms, I honestly feel both liberal ideology and mindset as well as the conservative one in this country cannot run this nation with any sense of progress.

It would be wise to just crumple up both ideologies start living as Americans foremost instead of (insert social demographic here) first to solve our problems.

Many people assume only one political party is allowed to address a problem at a time.

Where it is fewer Americans like myself who honestly don't care who solves an issue, an always remain open minded to better ideas to address social ill's both at home and abroad.

It's strange, watching Americans look at one another through a lens where those who are different from themselves are like citizens from an enemy state.

Shows how fragile our sense of belonging may actually be.

 

[George]

Seems like this whole Thread should be moved to the Politics Section!

Watter's World is a FOX NEWS blog, which should tell you EVERYTHING about its objectivity and the reliability of its facts, (1. being a blog and 2. Being FOX NEWS's Blog).

I would therefore caution you on the word "dumb", because stating facts based solely on one of the most skewed, unbalanced, unfair "news" (and I use that term lightly) networks isn't exactly what most people would call a reliable source of information..

All ways find it fascinating that the Dems/liberals, who control ABC,CBS, MBC, MSNBC, CNBC, and CNN, get so nuts about the one channel they don't control, though they aren't exactly Right wing only.

That may have been true at one time but it's changed. The brain drain in the USA is to the South and West, I.E. conservative states. I was an engineer in the aerospace sector. I've seen the switch. States like Texas, the Carolinas, Maryland, Arizona lead the country in technology. Beside what does ones beliefs have to do with the ability to apply science and engineering?
.

But if you look at the voting Demographics, many of those SW states are changing from red to blue. Texas, New Mexico (already solidly blue) and even areas in places like Arizona. This is due to the fact of the increasing Hispanic population and the fact that those technology jobs you mentioned are attracting people from both coasts as both Silicon valley and NY have prohibitively expensive to do business there now..

a big part of the problem is Liberals through their Tax-N-Spend policies screw up a location, then they bail to a place that's not screwed up, but don't realize that it's that way because of a lack of Liberal tax-n-spenders, but continue to vote for Liberals & that will eventually wreck their new location.

The problem in the US is its president. Before him there were also liberal and conservative groups but Obama's mission is to destroy the conservatives. Look at what he's saying and what he is doing. Both different things. No president has ever created so much scandals and get away with it because his liberal cronies were put in the right places, the media, the judiciary (with Holden almost blocking every investigation), the IRS, you name it. He's also helped by liberal Harry Reed, the Senate Majority Leader, who refuses to let the senate vote on conservative bills. The president who said he has a phone and a pen, clearly disregarding the constitution of the US, and he knows it because he is a constitutional lawyer. In 2006 he voted against raising the debt limit to $9 trillion. Under his "leadership" and one expensive war less (Iraq) the US has now a debt limit of $17.2 trillion!! Allthough he promised his voters during his first presidential campaign to reduce the deficit by 50% in his first term. He started with a debt ceiling of $11.315 trillion, so that should have gone to $5.7 trillion not 17.2!
The problem with liberals is that they focus on minorities. Give them money to stay out of poverty. It doesn't work. You must give people opportunities.

I'll give an example from Belgium. I was with a Turkish immigrant proposing him a new job. But he said that if he would take it he would have less money than he gets now. He recieved unemployment benefits and when he takes a new job his rent of his social housing would go up and in the end he would have less money to spend (and needed to work 8 hours a day instead of being home all day).

I like conservatives.

His being a "Constitutional Lawyer" may be an exaggeration....

Its precisely the opposite, its conservatives who declared jihad against Obama and it started even before he was elected President. I am not Obama's biggest fan but there is no question that the GOP made it there mission to destroy this man. Heck most of them wont even deny it.

"Our top Priority is to make sure Obama is a one term President". -Mitch McConnell who headed the Senate. FYI its not the Senate job to undermine the President and that's exactly what he admitted to.

Then there was the whole "birther" movement and the ugly spectrum of racism reared its ugly head. And YES the birthers are racist, its very hard to deny otherwise. I am not saying every conservative is racist or that there are no Liberal racists, but the birthers absolutely are and the GOP made them a political factor instead of tossing them aside as crackpots.

No President has ever created such scandal compared to Bush??? Not even close, Obama doesnt have 6000 dead servicemen on his hands for the lies he told. I get you don't like Obama but that's a completely unfair comparison.

The President doesn't do Senate business, what happens in the Senate is under the Control of Reid (and FYI Reid and Obama don't always get along). Reid can and has blocked conservative bills, its his right and its called Democracy. Its been that way the past 250 years, just like when McConnell blocked Democrat bills under Bush, when you are the MINORITY you don't get your bills passed. live on the fringe of society

. Nobody can accuse blacks of living the good life when you look at the crime, unemployment, illiteracy, lack of health care, etc...

I am not a big Obama fan, but I am not hater either. I think he has done a Mediocre job (but infinitely better than Bush) but lets be accurate at what hes done and whats just conveniently blamed on him...which is everything. The fact is this, whether you like him or not. No president has been treated as badly as Obama has by the opposition.

When the Prez through statements, books, ect makes it plain he intends to wreck the free-market/capitalist system & "fundamentally Change" the Country it's the duty of responsible people to prevent his plotting from happening.

Do you know who started the "Born in Kenya" thing? It was his relatives in Kenya who said they watched him being downloaded (Born for you quaint types).

Harry Reid, the Democrat Party Dictator of the Senate refused to allow hundreds of Bills passed by the House to even be presented to the Senate for consideration knowing the Democrat control Media would attack the "Republican Congress" ( a lie, Reps only control the House) for being a "do Nothing Congress" when it's actually Reid who's doing nothing but blocking Bills.

Black families were much better off in the 50s before liberal policies, welfare, don't need a husband around, soft on crome, ect, gutted the black communities.

Obama doing an infinitely better job than Bush??????? You got to be joking, he's the least qualified, most over his head, inept Prez in a Century(it takes effort to make Jimmy Carter look good!). Or maybe he's playing the fool to distract attention from the harm he's doing, like early AIDS the damage isn't all that visible yet.

As far as how he's been treated Dems like to forget that they vowed to block everything Bush wanted to d, including appointments, until his popularity over rode their plans following 9/11. But even then every time a bomb went off in Baghdad the Dems practically did back flips in jubilation over the expected political damage to bush. How many times did they declare the War lost, The surge a failure before the 1st Surger even arrived in country. Bush was threatened with Impeachment also.

 

[tetvet]

It all goes back to the people and their lack of interest their government , had the people really taken a real interest in what's going in current events Obama wouldn't haven't got through door , but he was fun multi-racial and political correct the timing was perfect and as long as he didn't actually try to do something all would be well , the problem is he starting doing things , ACA , drawing lines , ect , he doesn't need to have a strategy over seas he needs to have one at home , many people think 2 more years it will be over , I think it will be much longer than that .

 

[mmarsh]

George

1. Liberals don't control the media, Corporations do. Time Warner, Disney, Viacom, Microsoft, GE, etc. Just Google it. Republicans are the party of Big Business not Democrats, its been that way since the 1920's. Ergo the myth that the Media is liberal controlled is simply a Myth. The difference between those channels and FOX is that you don't have Democrat politicians actually running the station. A few years ago a FOX NEWS correspondent got caught passing White House (Bush Administration) Press info as news during the show. FOX isn't in the news business, its in the business of being the mouthpiece of the GOP.

2. Tax and Spend Democrats were finished in the 1980s and there hasn't be a Tax Hike since 1994. They have been replaced last decade with Borrow-and-Spend Republicans, which is far worse as its better to waste money you have (Democrats) then waste money you don't (Republicans).

3. Capitalism sucks, and the idea of a Free Market really means "free to f**k the little guy over". America is run by mega-corporation corporate monopolies who ruthless crush anyone in their way. Its neither free nor fair.
Look whats happening with Net Neutrality you really think that's a free market at work? Personally I view this as a promise Obama reneged on.

4. That is not being honest George, stop making excuses. The whole 3 years chasing birth certificates didn't come from Kenya and you know it. This is exactly why you get labelled as racists, because instead of throwing these losers out of the party you continually make excuses for them, and you are still doing it.

5. Good Grief...Blacks were better in the 1950s? You mean when they were only made to ride in the back of the Bus or was that when the KKK was firebombing their churches and lynching them from trees? Once again a comment that shows just how completely out of touch the GOP is in terms of race relations. You people really don't get it do you?

6. Those are just words George, not facts. The facts are this: The wars..Bush, the Economy..Bush...the political scandals...Bush. The polls show it my way George...not yours. The fact is only his lackeys and the revisionists still defend him, even Most Republicans are embarrassed to mention his name. The Bush Administration scored the hat trick of being corrupt, incompetent and stupid. I'd gladly trade 4 more years of Obama then have a single one under Bush.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/06/cnn-poll-is-bush-still-to-blame-for-economy/

Lets look at the polls (Gallup as of today) Obama popularity is at 41%, Bush's Popularity was at 27% when he left office. That should tell you who Americans think is doing the better job. I don't expect you or the others to accept that but it should be obvious that you are in the minority.

From 2001 to 2007 the GOP controlled all three branches of government except for a brief 18 month period when they lost the Senate when Jeffords switched sides. Are you really going to tell me the Republicans couldnt pass their agenda in 6 years? If so, then you cannot blame the Democrats.

 

[George]

George

1. Liberals don't control the media, Corporations do. Time Warner, Disney, Viacom, Microsoft, GE, etc. Just Google it. Republicans are the party of Big Business not Democrats, its been that way since the 1920's. Ergo the myth that the Media is liberal controlled is simply a Myth. The difference between those channels and FOX is that you don't have Democrat politicians actually running the station. A few years ago a FOX NEWS correspondent got caught passing White House (Bush Administration) Press info as news during the show. FOX isn't in the news business, its in the business of being the mouthpiece of the GOP.

2. Tax and Spend Democrats were finished in the 1980s and there hasn't be a Tax Hike since 1994. They have been replaced last decade with Borrow-and-Spend Republicans, which is far worse as its better to waste money you have (Democrats) then waste money you don't (Republicans).

3. Capitalism sucks, and the idea of a Free Market really means "free to f**k the little guy over". America is run by mega-corporation corporate monopolies who ruthless crush anyone in their way. Its neither free nor fair.
Look whats happening with Net Neutrality you really think that's a free market at work? Personally I view this as a promise Obama reneged on.

4. That is not being honest George, stop making excuses. The whole 3 years chasing birth certificates didn't come from Kenya and you know it. This is exactly why you get labelled as racists, because instead of throwing these losers out of the party you continually make excuses for them, and you are still doing it.

5. Good Grief...Blacks were better in the 1950s? You mean when they were only made to ride in the back of the Bus or was that when the KKK was firebombing their churches and lynching them from trees? Once again a comment that shows just how completely out of touch the GOP is in terms of race relations. You people really don't get it do you?

6. Those are just words George, not facts. The facts are this: The wars..Bush, the Economy..Bush...the political scandals...Bush. The polls show it my way George...not yours. The fact is only his lackeys and the revisionists still defend him, even Most Republicans are embarrassed to mention his name. The Bush Administration scored the hat trick of being corrupt, incompetent and stupid. I'd gladly trade 4 more years of Obama then have a single one under Bush.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/06/cnn-poll-is-bush-still-to-blame-for-economy/

Lets look at the polls (Gallup as of today) Obama popularity is at 41%, Bush's Popularity was at 27% when he left office. That should tell you who Americans think is doing the better job. I don't expect you or the others to accept that but it should be obvious that you are in the minority.

From 2001 to 2007 the GOP controlled all three branches of government except for a brief 18 month period when they lost the Senate when Jeffords switched sides. Are you really going to tell me the Republicans couldnt pass their agenda in 6 years? If so, then you cannot blame the Democrats.

1. Liberals don't control the media, Corporations do. Time Warner, Disney, Viacom, Microsoft, GE, etc. Just Google it. Republicans are the party of Big Business not Democrats, its been that way since the 1920's. Ergo the myth that the Media is liberal controlled is simply a Myth. The difference between those channels and FOX is that you don't have Democrat politicians actually running the station. A few years ago a FOX NEWS correspondent got caught passing White House (Bush Administration) Press info as news during the show. FOX isn't in the news business, its in the business of being the mouthpiece of the GOP.

It's a myth that the GOP is the Party of the Rich, the Democrat Party has just as many fat cat million/billionaires as the GOP, Bloomberg for instance, just where Dems control most Media they can repeat the lie enough long enough for people to believe it. If "The Big Zero" was a Rep the media would be mentioning every day that his approval rate is in the upper 30s or so, as it is it doesn't come up that much. When gas prices were up earlier media reports on the prices were down 75% vs when Bush was Prez.

2. Tax and Spend Democrats were finished in the 1980s and there hasn't be a Tax Hike since 1994. They have been replaced last decade with Borrow-and-Spend Republicans, which is far worse as its better to waste money you have (Democrats) then waste money you don't (Republicans).

OK, instead of saying Tax-n-spend I should have just said SPEND, they still want to expand spending 15% per year. I accused Bush of spending like a Democrat, until the Dems took over & showed how Democrats really spend. Bush spent as much as all previous Presidents, Obama has spent all most as much as Bush & all the previous ones combined.

4. That is not being honest George, stop making excuses. The whole 3 years chasing birth certificates didn't come from Kenya and you know it. This is exactly why you get labelled as racists, because instead of throwing these losers out of the party you continually make excuses for them, and you are still doing it.

So his relatives saying he was born in Kenya should have been ignored? What did Obama do to solve the problem? He kept his records sealed & took 2 1/2 years to fabricate a birth certificate. And calling an investigation "Racist" is nothing more than intellectual bankruptcy. There's things that don't add up & Obama is stonewalling.

5. Good Grief...Blacks were better in the 1950s? You mean when they were only made to ride in the back of the Bus or was that when the KKK was firebombing their churches and lynching them from trees? Once again a comment that shows just how completely out of touch the GOP is in terms of race relations. You people really don't get it do you?


Check out the stats @ the bottom of the article, and notice the author. Herman Cain hit on this recently. Yes, segregation sucked, but the black community had intact nuclear families, low crime, didn't have blacks committing crimes & being in jail all out of proportion to their numbers, weren't stacking up bodies in the street.

The Bush Administration scored the hat trick of being corrupt, incompetent and stupid.

Sounds like The Big Zero to me....