Politics Rattler... politics.
The thing that makes perfectly intelligent people make some seriously FUBAR decisions.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

That is one heck of an assumption.
I'm saying it's a bad thing but it certainly contradicts what George was saying.
He said that in America people don't answer to the government. I had a different opinion in that matter that people do answer to the government and do so in a very deep and complicated manner. So much so that the laws are incredibly numerous and complex that the number of lawyers present are pretty much at unprecedented levels.
It's not a good thing at all.

I did? In this thread I said that Govt insurance will eventually drive insurance companys out of the market. As far as basic needs, hopitals have to treat those that show up, even if they can't pay. Of the theoretical 47 million uninsured estimates are 25-30 million are illegal aliens & another 10 mill. are young people who choose to spend money on things other than insurance.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

RIGHT. But currently, the only "public health option" is to take your child to the ER when he/she has a cold. *rolls eyes*

I can call my doctor right now and see him in the next two hours. No need to visit the emergency room. I pay $115 a month for medical insurance and my co-pay is $10 a visit.

Let me tell you this.... why do I as a veteran of the US Army pay for private medical care? I'm covered under the VA system and yet I don't do it. Why? Because it's a complete crock of . It's a failure unto itself. That's just for the armed forces. Wait until it's for the entire civilian populace.

List any program in which the government was able to run right. Please do so.... The CARS program was a failure outright also. Seven out of ten cars were "foreign".

Social Security - Failure
Medicare - Failure
Mass Nanny State Medical Care - Failure
VA Healthcare - Failure
CARS - Failure
Welfare - Failure

Shall I continue?

The UK's and Canada's healthcare is a joke. Folks waiting for ever for surgeries and treatment.

Cancer Survival Rates Significantly Higher in United States Than in Europe

If we bring Socialistic style Government Healthcare.... it will be rationed just like it is in the UK and Canada. Which will lead to worse care.

Once again.... I will not allow the government to view me as a investment. I'm a human being and not some piece of property. They better back the off..... I'm not happy and neither are the majority of my fellow citizens.

Originally Posted by George

I did? In this thread I said that Govt insurance will eventually drive insurance companys out of the market. As far as basic needs, hopitals have to treat those that show up, even if they can't pay. Of the theoretical 47 million uninsured estimates are 25-30 million are illegal aliens & another 10 mill. are young people who choose to spend money on things other than insurance.

That's funny because there's a lot of countries that have both a public and a private insurance system and both have managed to co-exist. I'm sure the American insurance companies will have the ingenuity to make it work for them as well. Of course it means they won't be making the fat profits they are making now by ripping us off but they'll adapt and stay in business. Or stick with their bad plans and go out of business.
Young people and others who don't feel they are in need of much health care don't take up insurance simply because they feel it's not worth the high prices. So what happens to this young guy if he gets into a horrible road accident and needs treatment that neither he or his family can afford?

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

That's funny because there's a lot of countries that have both a public and a private insurance system and both have managed to co-exist. I'm sure the American insurance companies will have the ingenuity to make it work for them as well. Of course it means they won't be making the fat profits they are making now by ripping us off but they'll adapt and stay in business. Or stick with their bad plans and go out of business.
Young people and others who don't feel they are in need of much health care don't take up insurance simply because they feel it's not worth the high prices. So what happens to this young guy if he gets into a horrible road accident and needs treatment that neither he or his family can afford?

I shouldn't have to pay for some idiots actions because he felt it wasn't necessary to have insurance. I'm 25, single, and have a high school education and my take home pay is $30,000. Yet I'm able to pay for insurance, toys, house, vacations, etc....

If my friend how is in the same social-economic class as me can't do it because he doesn't want to or can't do it because he "can't" afford it then he's not trying. Instead of having the hip iPhone and BMW he could have a normal cell phone and a regular car like me.

People can't live within their means thus they demand others to pay for their means. 'em.....

I don't work to support millions of socialistic welfare bums.

I suppose if someone told me they just like their dot matrix printer and that was the end of that, I'd have nothing left to say.
This discussion seems pretty close to that.

The problem of the US healthcare system is actually pretty well laid out in "The Undercover Economist" by Tim Harford. It's VERY pro-Capitalism throughout and is against government intervention but even he pointed out why the US healthcare system is highly flawed. I'd explain it to you but you're not going to pay any attention anyway so if you care enough, grab a copy of the book (it'll give you great insight into why capitalism is such an excellent system in ways that apply to us in every day life).

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

I can call my doctor right now and see him in the next two hours. No need to visit the emergency room. I pay $115 a month for medical insurance and my co-pay is $10 a visit.

Let me tell you this.... why do I as a veteran of the US Army pay for private medical care? I'm covered under the VA system and yet I don't do it. Why? Because it's a complete crock of . It's a failure unto itself. That's just for the armed forces. Wait until it's for the entire civilian populace.

Wonderful. Not everyone is able to afford that insurance... Ever heard the phrase "pre-existing condition"? It means someone with heart, lung, brain, (insert important internal organ here) problems MIGHT not be able to pick up ANY insurance. What do we do about them? Survival of the fittest?

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

The UK's and Canada's healthcare is a joke. Folks waiting for ever for surgeries and treatment.

Cancer Survival Rates Significantly Higher in United States Than in Europe

If we bring Socialistic style Government Healthcare.... it will be rationed just like it is in the UK and Canada. Which will lead to worse care.

You're right... Neither the UK nor Canada has the system we need to emulate... We NEED to emulate France's healthcare... Give a government alternative IN ADDITION TO private coverage. But it really doesn't matter... You nor anyone else against healthcare will listen because as long as you're safe, you could give two shakes of a rat's hind parts as to what happens to the rest of the world.

By the way... The REASON the cancer survival rates are higher here than in Europe are because if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on treatment, you can get treated... Problem is, most people aren't that rich.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

Once again.... I will not allow the government to view me as a investment. I'm a human being and not some piece of property. They better back the off..... I'm not happy and neither are the majority of my fellow citizens.

You are a human being... Just like those who cannot afford healthcare are human beings... Would you throw them to the dogs simply because of circumstance?

Yes the US has better survival rates for cancer, but is this simply because the US spends more? A like for like comparison should compare equal spending on healthcare. Other factors as I have said are genetics, lifestyles and the cancers themselves.

A second article, which looked at 2.7 million patients diagnosed between 1995 and 1999, found that countries that spent the most on health per capita per year had better survival rates.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7510121.stm

Cancer is also only one aspect of healthcare, consider infant mortality and lifespan for example.



http://blog.prospect.org/blog/ezrakl..._countries.jpg

Like I said, The Undercover Economist covers the US health care fiasco pretty darn well and says the same thing about more money doing less work.
I've recommended it a while ago in our books section. It's worth a read for just about everyone in here.

You Have No Idea What Health Costs

If You Did, You Might Just Want Real Reform

The truth is we all pay, and much more than we recognize, for health care.
For many, it's among the largest investments we'll make, on par, even, with the money we spend on a house or tuck away for retirement. But while it's easy to track our stock portfolios as they tank along with the market, our outlay for health care is less obvious. Employers pay some, and so do individuals, and taxpayers. And some even hides behind the deficit. As such, few of us see the full picture. But to make sense of the proposals for reform, getting a grasp of the cost is critical.

The average health-care coverage for the average family now costs $13,375, according to Kaiser. Over the past decade, premiums have increased by 138 percent. And if the trend continues, by 2019 the average family plan will cost $30,083.
Three years of slightly above-average health insurance will cost a solid six figures.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...091900112.html