is taiwan a card in a U.S-China politic game? - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
February 28th, 2005  
r031Button
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
please read my work again

it says if i was to use the american way


anyways, im for all taiwan and its chinese

besides, if china does atttack, whos got more right to attack

us and other countries has no right under any law to attack china for taking chinese territory under rebel control
But how do you claim Taiwan? I mean it's been under nationalist control since the beginning. If it was a rebell, it woul have to have been under your control at one point or another. As Taiwan's never been controlled by the PRC, you can't call it a rebellion.
February 28th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
please read my work again

it says if i was to use the american way


anyways, im for all taiwan and its chinese

besides, if china does atttack, whos got more right to attack

us and other countries has no right under any law to attack china for taking chinese territory under rebel control
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
February 28th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Quote:
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
Laugh at the face of reality all you want GodofThunder9010. The Taiwan independence movement is a dangerous one and can escalate into a serious conflict. There is a definite need for a discussion and come to a relative understanding from both sides. But I cannot accept your simple conclusion to close this discussion at once.

It's important if you listen to Hong Kong's news commentaries and discussions to come up to some logical answer. You and I are not Chinese so we know nothing about the Chinese Perspective. So do not speak for others!

You might think relations between Taiwan and China are at a standstill, but economic exchanges are improving as they might become a vital asset in the stability and peace of this region. Two sides does not want to risk war knowing that serious consequences would follow. It seems that the PRC is more concerned in Economic Growth and rapid development rather than attacking the nearby island.

According to the Newsmanager in the International News Category, direct charter flights between two areas are open and farm imports are opened in Mainland Markets. Talks are being reached once again.
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Boots
February 28th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabal
Quote:
That is what I have come to expect from the Chinese perspective. "Attack it!!! Killl it!!! Punish the traitors!!!" That is precisely why it is a pointless discussion.
Laugh at the face of reality all you want GodofThunder9010.
Didn't know I was joking.

Quote:
The Taiwan independence movement is a dangerous one and can escalate into a serious conflict. There is a definite need for a discussion and come to a relative understanding from both sides. But I cannot accept your simple conclusion to close this discussion at once.
Agreed, it is very dangerous and it needs to be thorough discouraged. Why? Because of China's level of determination on the issue. Because they have no intention of ever allowing Taiwan and its people to decide for themselves --- unless it is a decision to reunite --- the Independence Movement in Taiwan is extremely dangerous. So who is at fault for that danger? The danger wouldn't even exist without China stance on the Taiwan question. Frankly, it is an extremely reckless and stubborn stand to take. Taiwan Independence is stupid because it gains them absolutely nothing and has a strong chance of losing them everything.

Quote:
It's important if you listen to Hong Kong's news commentaries and discussions to come up to some logical answer. You and I are not Chinese so we know nothing about the Chinese Perspective. So do not speak for others!
Okay, fair enough, but there isn't anybody from Taiwan to take the opposite view, so the discussion then consists of a tiresome series of Chinamen reaffirming to each other how absolutely right and righteous their cause is and how evil Taiwan independence is, etc. My whole thought is, "Why can't they see any perspective but one? There are two sides to every issue and this is no different."

Quote:
You might think relations between Taiwan and China are at a standstill, but economic exchanges are improving as they might become a vital asset in the stability and peace of this region. Two sides does not want to risk war knowing that serious consequences would follow. It seems that the PRC is more concerned in Economic Growth and rapid development rather than attacking the nearby island.

According to the Newsmanager in the International News Category, direct charter flights between two areas are open and farm imports are opened in Mainland Markets. Talks are being reached once again.
Naturally, we all hope for the best. The best outcome would be reunification and reconciliation because the other path could lead to many catastrophes. If things are currently moving toward reunification, I am all for it. It would be nice to see the Taiwan question have a good ending.
March 1st, 2005  
Zyca
 
 
This is the first time in a long time that I see a topic with "Taiwan" somewhere in the title that is not locked while I am browsing. Am I browsing this forum too infrequently or are the mods locking Taiwan-related threads with incredible high-efficiency?

There's no doubt that Taiwan is valuable to both China and the US. With the rise of China, the US cannot ignore the threat that the Chinese posses to the Americans. In my opinion, the best solution for the US is NOT an independent Taiwan, because that closes the chapter of Taiwan-China conflict and China would have all its time and resources to do something else. That idea cannot sit comfortably for the US. Letting China invade Taiwan and take control of the island, of course, is not much of a good idea either. It pretty much accomplishes the same thing, which is ending the Taiwan-China conflict. The US prefers the status-quo, acknowledges the One-China policy while emphasize the devotion towards the Taiwan Relations Act.

If you agree with my opinion, then you can quickly take away the idealistic notion that the US value Taiwan because it's a free and a democratic country. Taiwan is one of the biggest buyers of the US arms. If not for China, Taiwan would never need to spend so much money on military. China has 500+ missiles aiming at Taiwan. Without Taiwan, what could China have done with the resources spent constructing those missiles? I'll go even further to say that the US may not even like a good friendship between China and Taiwan. The status-quo is, Taiwan and China dislike each other, hold opposite opinions, and keep each other busy (well, Taiwan keeping China busy is more accurate).

So, my answer to this thread is: Yes, Taiwan is a card, and the US is enjoying the game right now because things are under control (Taiwan's president Chen has separated himself from the pro-independence parties). When the Taiwan-China conflict is over, that'll be the new chapter for China and the US both. I think China is more eager to enter that stage than the US is. In my opinion, 2006 is a dangerous time for Taiwan... Beijing's olympics is 2008, two years is enough for China to recover from an invasion of Taiwan...
March 1st, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewie_nz
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA
well guys and girls, lets have a breakthrough, lets not get this thread locked for once


i personally think that taiwan is a card to americans, but to the chinese it is very important, it is one of the land controled by rebels that has not been under chinese control yet.
it's a free and independant country. with it's own laws, economy and political system. and has been independant of china since the Nationalist left the mainland.

time to let it go
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
March 1st, 2005  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexybeast
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Since we are supposed to have a "breakthrough" here, I won't mention what I disagree with you on. But yes, Taiwanese don't like China the way it is right now. And yes Taiwanese and Chinese share some things in common.
March 1st, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexybeast
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....

the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl (including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))

taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Since we are supposed to have a "breakthrough" here, I won't mention what I disagree with you on. But yes, Taiwanese don't like China the way it is right now. And yes Taiwanese and Chinese share some things in common.
but i didn't finish.....if taiwan relies too heavily on U.S....that will be trouble in the future..
March 1st, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexybeast
so why France bothers to take back lands Germans had taken away from them many years ago, in 19th century.......if, every body lives according to ur theory that IT IS TIME TO LET IT GO....
In that case, you had a German occupation of Allsace Lorraine - a coutry full of lots of French and lots of Germans, so both claimed it. Doesn't really fit for what you are talking about because the USA or UK or France or whoever else ... has not annexed Taiwan and made it their own. You hear mess of pure nonsense stating that, "any move toward independence for Taiwan is a move toward enslaving them to the USA". The USA has its influence over many things, but that is one helluva stretch. The USA has nothing to gain from Taiwanese Independence that they do not already have now, but they stand to lose a great deal if Southeast Asia is thrown into war by the matter.

What choice does the United States have but to favor the Status Quo?

Quote:
the lands of taiwan has been taken by the acestors of chinese ppl
(including a 56-ehtic groups), and built by the off springs of chinese ppl, and live like chinese ppl, (completely same culture, same lauguage (local taiwanese laugugae is a local lauguage of Fujian province in china, most of taiwanese population come from Fujian province in Ming dynasty))
What has that got to do with drawing borders on the world map anyways? Doesn't seem to stop anyone else on this planet from doing their own thing. Examples are endless.

Quote:
taiwanese ppl dont want to get back to china cuz they want democracy, but in the future, china and taiwan wil still be together someday, cuz they are just the same.......
Lets face it, right now Taiwan is doing just fine on their own. China needs to make it worth their while. Invasion isn't likely to endear PRC rule to the hearts of the people of Taiwan. The best end to the story would be peaceful reunification.
March 1st, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
it won't be politic that bring china and taiwan together (if that ever happens) it will be business