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Woops made a big boo boo. I meant the 120mm APFSDS round.
Surprised you didn't pick up on that. Don't know if I fully buy that the 105mm was ineffective and therefore replaced, but otherwise, fair enough. The T-80 may have been a pretty good tank. But like I said, Russian hardware always comes with high claims and impressive stats on paper and always manage to do nothing but get blown up. South Korea bought some T-80Us but the ones in South Korean service are heavily modified and upgraded far beyond those in Russian inventory. The basic package proved that the basic K1s had a far better FCS package. The heavily modified South Korean T-80Us however, were better than the basic K1s. The T-80U isn't good enough to even be considered a replacement for the K1A1 even though South Korea could acquire the Russian for a fraction of the K1A1's cost (in fact, the ones in service right now were acquired practically for free). |
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The modifications were done with the Russians. Probably in South Korea though. They had to upgrade it because the FCS was pure crap.
Yeah it was practically for free, but if the T-80U was simply that good, odds were they would/could have ordered more of them. Lots of M48s still need to be replaced, it's an expensive deal and they're doing it with K1s, K1A1s and soon, K2s. No plans for T-80U. As for claims that the M1 hadn't been lost in combat, that was probably prior to 2003. If they made such a claim after 2003, it would simply not be true. If they meant to another tank other than another M1, it would still be true. Other Russian gear that South Korea uses include Mil and Kamov transport helicopters, BMP-3 and the Metis-M (after seeing how good it was). The BMP-3 got good reviews as well (but I've heard some bad things about the armor) and I'm actually quite a fan of the Mi-8/17 series and Ka-27. I don't think a transport helicopter needs to be very expensive or fancy. It just needs to be reliable with lots of room for cargo. Ka-27 is small, but still, it's a nice little utility helicopter for ships. I don't think Russian stuff is all total junk. Just with the tanks, I gotta see something better than them getting blown up left and right as hopelessly as they have so far. You'd think with all their hype they'd be able to take out something. |
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[QUOTE=the_13th_redneck;529025] The modifications were done with the Russians. Probably in South Korea though. They had to upgrade it because the FCS was pure crap.
All i know is it was shipped as used by Russian army. Quote:
Since quoting specifications failed to give you a picture, compare German Panther to British Firefly, the Firefly could destroy the panther and thus was a serious threat it was ultimately inferior in every respect. Quote:
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Americans typically bomb an area, shell an area, send a recon force and only then enter with tanks, Russians just happily drove their machines into Grozny, of course they got slaughtered no tank in the world is going to survive urban warfare on its merry own. |
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Because what I knew about losses were largely either hits in the engine compartment (which is inevitably vulnerable regardless of what tank you use). So it's not a complete writeoff but instead damage taken that can be repaired. The vast majority of M1 write offs seem to be from extremely powerful IEDs. |
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Both tanks are greate !!
and don't forget when you comparing that all the tank built for its own climatique and landscape conditions .. it is like you cannot compare T90 with Merkava mk4 because T90 will stuck or will be immobile in israel landscape and climate ... and Merkava would stuck or be immobile in Russian wheather and landscape conditions most of all in russian mud 65t tank will get it as a first hit ... lets retturn to T90 and Leopard in my oppinion leo i a bit better but I think T90 is more protected because of Stora/Arena ... but I read before that Leo2 can shoot Russian tanks at much longer range ... so in the battle field like was in WW2 they have aproximatelly equal chances to survive... And I think there is Better Russian tanks then T90 .. (not really remmeber correct me if i wrong); |
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