Originally Posted by lljadw

''The core idea of Darwinism is selection, not evolution . Evolution ...describes the results of selection . ''
Source : G.Stein :Biological science and the roots of Nazism . P 53 . Ref 10 .

It's getting better. Evolution occur through natural selection. However there is a problem when Nazis are applying this theory to justify their own screwed up political theories.

There is another problem just right here and now. You provided with nothing that can support your case. You can't blame Darwin for how the Nazis viewed his theory, if you do that, you have either never read The Origin of Species and the Natural Selection or you don't understand it. Charles Darwin hesitated to publish his book, not because of how screwed up politicians would view it, he was concerned about how another absurd perception of life and the existence of different species would react to it. I'm talking about the most absurd thing the humanity have invented, religions.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

It's getting better. Evolution occur through natural selection. However there is a problem when Nazis are applying this theory to justify their own screwed up political theories.

There is another problem just right here and now. You provided with nothing that can support your case. You can't blame Darwin for how the Nazis viewed his theory, if you do that, you have either never read The Origin of Species and the Natural Selection or you don't understand it. Charles Darwin hesitated to publish his book, not because of how screwed up politicians would view it, he was concerned about how another absurd perception of life and the existence of different species would react to it. I'm talking about the most absurd thing the humanity have invented, religions.

It is interesting to think how much further ahead humanity could have been had it not been for religion, we still struggle to match the Greek and Roman civilisations in engineering and the following 1000 years of Western religious dogma stiffled scientific progress, to think that as short a time ago as the 18th century religion still weilded enough power to almost stop the publication of the greatest breakthrough in understanding humanity.

I also find it amusing that it was Islam that saved much of the works of the ancient philosophers and scientists and led the world in scientific development while the west desperately clung to 5th century fairy tales and now Islam seems determined to find it's way back to the 7th century.

Originally Posted by MontyB

It is interesting to think how much further ahead humanity could have been had it not been for religion, we still struggle to match the Greek and Roman civilisations in engineering and the following 1000 years of Western religious dogma stiffled scientific progress, to think that as short a time ago as the 18th century religion still weilded enough power to almost stop the publication of the greatest breakthrough in understanding humanity.

I also find it amusing that it was Islam that saved much of the works of the ancient philosophers and scientists and led the world in scientific development while the west desperately clung to 5th century fairy tales and now Islam seems determined to find it's way back to the 7th century.

I admire the Romans problem solving skills when they created the aqueducts and sewage systems in their cities. They also invented heated floors, and I am still in awe in how they were able to build things that still stands. All the knowledge of it vanished when Europe descended down into the dark ages while the progress continued in the Islamic world. Baghdad was the cultural and the scientific capital of the world. A lot of stars have Arabic names. I don't know if Algebra was invented/discovered by Muslims, but they developed it. The Islamic world also invented soap, and that was a pretty good invention. Everything ended when the Mongols invaded Baghdad and they never recovered from it.

Science is the greatest story of all time and the journey continues still. How we are increasing our understanding of the world we live in and finding answers to very fundamental questions and I want answers as well. Why are we here? Where do we come from? Are we alone? Charles Darwin didn't dare to touch our branch of the tree of all living things on this planet, because of what a few goat herders wrote for about two thousand years ago.

I really like your quotation of Voltaire, I interpret it as he was talking about politics and religion. Religion is the mother load of absurdities. You probably guess by now I am an atheist and yes. I am an atheist.

I watched something amazing a few years ago. Dr Bob Ballard (the man who found Titanic) dived down to the sea floor and found hydro-thermal wents and it was teaming with life not based on photosynthesis. Now we can look at Jupiter's moons in a new light. I really follow the hunt for exo-planets and they have found thousands. They were supposed to launch the James Webb telescope last year. This telescope will be looking for atmospheres on planets within the habitable zone of their stars. If the telescope detect CO2 and O in the atmospheres. The planets have maybe an ongoing photosynthesis and that means, we aren't alone

I am, however, struggling to comprehend the theory of multiverse

My understanding of algebra is that it was an ancient Persian style of calculation (which seems right as algebra makes as much sense to me as ancient Persian) most of the ancient world used geometry instead.

I too find it impossible to buy into the god dellusion and have always been astounded that people lived in multistory apartments and surgeons carried out successful brain surgery in the first century AD and mud huts leeches by the 6th century thanks to religion.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

It's getting better. Evolution occur through natural selection. However there is a problem when Nazis are applying this theory to justify their own screwed up political theories.

There is another problem just right here and now. You provided with nothing that can support your case. You can't blame Darwin for how the Nazis viewed his theory, if you do that, you have either never read The Origin of Species and the Natural Selection or you don't understand it. Charles Darwin hesitated to publish his book, not because of how screwed up politicians would view it, he was concerned about how another absurd perception of life and the existence of different species would react to it. I'm talking about the most absurd thing the humanity have invented, religions.

There is a clear link between liberalism/socialism and nazism .
There is a clear link between liberalism/socialism and Darwinism
There is a clear link between Darwinism and Eugenics.
There is a clear link between Eugenics and nazism .
There is a clear link between Darwinism and nazism .
Darwinism was a necessary,but not sufficient step for nazism to happen .
Kershaw : Hitler's 2 main aims rested on '' a ''world-view ''that saw racial struggle and the survival of the fittest as the key determinants in human history .''
The difference with Darwin is only semantical .
For Hitler and for Darwin, man was not an end ,but only a mean .
Quotations from well-known Darwinists
Teddy Roosevelt :society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind .
Hitler would agree .
Helen Keller :a human life is sacred only when it may be of some use to itself and the world .
Hitler would agree .
H.G. Wells :I am told that the interbreeding of healthy white men and healthy black women result in disease.
Hitler would agree .
G.B. Shaw : a part of eugenic politics would finally land us in an extensive use of the lethal chamber .
Hitler would agree .
I still do not understand why Shaw was not made a honorary SS Obergruppenführer .
Churchill advocated compulsory sterilization of the inferior and compulsory labour camps for '' mental defectives ''.
Hitler would agree .
Why did Winston not become a honorary SS Obergruppenführer ?
Francis Crick ( Nobel Prize Winner ):Hitler gave eugenics a bad name and it is time something was done to make it respectable again .
By a more PC Hitler ?
Graham Bell : deaf people must be forbidden to intermarry .
Alexis Carrell:''deviant '' humans should be suppressed so that the ''hereditary biological aristocracy '' could increase .
I hear Adolf applauding .
And the same Carrel wrote : those who have seriously betrayed public confidence must be killed by gaz .
And Darwin himself : In the future civilised races of men will exterminate the savage races .
This means that for Charles, the Übermensch only had the right to populate the earth .
And I hear Adolf say : that's true . And I will do it .Because only the Übermensch has the right to populate the earth .

I can play this game too.
Pierre-Jules-César Janssen discovered sun was a big ball of burning gas.
Most people killed by Hitler were killed during the day.
Hitler gassed his victims.
Therefore Pierre-Jules-César Janssen was pro-Nazi and by default a liberal.

Anyone else want to play connect the random dots in history?

Originally Posted by lljadw

There is a clear link between liberalism/socialism and nazism .
There is a clear link between liberalism/socialism and Darwinism
There is a clear link between Darwinism and Eugenics.
There is a clear link between Eugenics and nazism .
There is a clear link between Darwinism and nazism .
Darwinism was a necessary,but not sufficient step for nazism to happen .
Kershaw : Hitler's 2 main aims rested on '' a ''world-view ''that saw racial struggle and the survival of the fittest as the key determinants in human history .''
The difference with Darwin is only semantical .
For Hitler and for Darwin, man was not an end ,but only a mean .
Quotations from well-known Darwinists
Teddy Roosevelt :society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind .
Hitler would agree .
Helen Keller :a human life is sacred only when it may be of some use to itself and the world .
Hitler would agree .
H.G. Wells :I am told that the interbreeding of healthy white men and healthy black women result in disease.
Hitler would agree .
G.B. Shaw : a part of eugenic politics would finally land us in an extensive use of the lethal chamber .
Hitler would agree .
I still do not understand why Shaw was not made a honorary SS Obergruppenführer .
Churchill advocated compulsory sterilization of the inferior and compulsory labour camps for '' mental defectives ''.
Hitler would agree .
Why did Winston not become a honorary SS Obergruppenführer ?
Francis Crick ( Nobel Prize Winner ):Hitler gave eugenics a bad name and it is time something was done to make it respectable again .
By a more PC Hitler ?
Graham Bell : deaf people must be forbidden to intermarry .
Alexis Carrell:''deviant '' humans should be suppressed so that the ''hereditary biological aristocracy '' could increase .
I hear Adolf applauding .
And the same Carrel wrote : those who have seriously betrayed public confidence must be killed by gaz .
And Darwin himself : In the future civilised races of men will exterminate the savage races .
This means that for Charles, the Übermensch only had the right to populate the earth .
And I hear Adolf say : that's true . And I will do it .Because only the Übermensch has the right to populate the earth .

I view this as amusing and annoying at the same time. First of all, there is a huge difference between Darwinism and the theory of evolution with natural selection. The latter has been proven correct a lot of times. Darwinism was a term created by Herbert Spencer and he also used the term "survival of the fittest" When you are quoting someone, use it correctly or don't do it at all. Darwin said

"With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely that the weaker and inferior members of society do not marry so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage, though this is more to be hoped for than expected."

You also begin to read about what liberalism is, because you don't know the difference between socialism, liberalism, conservatism, and nazism.

Shall we ask Red to move this thread to the General Discussion part of the forum

Originally Posted by MontyB

I can play this game too.
Pierre-Jules-César Janssen discovered sun was a big ball of burning gas.
Most people killed by Hitler were killed during the day.
Hitler gassed his victims.
Therefore Pierre-Jules-César Janssen was pro-Nazi and by default a liberal.

Anyone else want to play connect the random dots in history?

That was funny.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

Shall we ask Red to move this thread to the General Discussion part of the forum

I do think the parts back to the last discussion on ISIS should be split off to a thread of their own so this one can get back on track.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

That was funny.

The truth is that the nazis embraced Darwinism (and especially its racist and antisemitic side )and used it as a foundational principle of their worldview .The influence of the chief German Darwinist (Ernst Häckel ) on nazism ,was essential .

This is confirmed in other words by establishment historians as Richard Evans; Ian Kershaw and Eberhard Jackel .