Separation of Church and State




 
--
Boots
 
June 1st, 2005  
behemoth79
 
 

Topic: Separation of Church and State


I believe that the founding fathers of America had no intention of separating church and state. To do so would be wanting to destroy the three branch system of government America currently enjoys. Why you may ask?

For the LORD is my judge (judicial branch)
The LORD is my lawgiver (legislative branch)
The LORK is my king (executive branch)
(Isaiah 33:22 NIV)

the foundation for America's government was layed out thousands of years before the western hemisphere was even considered. To want a separation of church and state would be asking to destroy the American government. I'll end this with an open-ended question. Why does someone want to change what has worked for the last 200+ years?

What do you guys think?
June 1st, 2005  
Bory
 
 
I beleive personally that church and state should be seperated.
That is mostly based on history, Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Iran etc.
That and the fact I wouldn't trust my church in admisistering my country.
The Catholic Church is very far behind society in its beleifes, and I beleive that if they want to survive, they must adapt.

I know they foster conservative beleifes because since Kindergaten, I've been going to a Catholic School and have had Religon rammed down my throat. Having the State run without interference from the church also limits the number of Fundmentalisim. Iran is a big example of this, a nation run by religoius fanatics, and a terrorist hub.
June 1st, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
who's religion?


christianity?
islam?
buddaism?


see if the church was ingrained into the running of the state there is the potential for abuse of those who aren't part of THAT religion...


and since the pigrims left europe to escape religious persecution...



my view, church and state should always be seperate, after all....you wouldn't want the govt running you faith if the roles were reversed huh? lol
--
Boots
June 1st, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
I think the Church should be stripped of political power, if only because the political power will corrupt the church even further.
June 1st, 2005  
Duty Honor Country
 
 
The founding fathers never meant for religion to be banned from government like it is today. Remember, back in the day, there was only one church you could be a part of, the Church of England. That is why people came to America, to practice freedom of religion.

I have read enough US history books to know that congress honored religion and God during the Revolutionary War. There was one time where congress took a day off so that everyone could "pray for the cause." Also, the only time congress ever met on suday was for "emergency sessions." George Washington was a devout believer like almost all the Fouding Fathers. But todays high school text books totally leave out religion in our history.

I believe that freedom of religion meant that the government could not force you into one religion or the other. In my opinion, having the 10 commandments on courthouse property, praying at a high school graduation, or saying the predge of allegence does not force anyone into a religion. Go to Africa, Asia of the Middle East and you will really see freedom of religion at work...yes I am being a sarcastic SOB. This be a touchy issue for me.

SGT Doody
June 1st, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
My point is that the church itself shouldn't hold power.
However, I do not believe that a government must reject everything that has to do with religion. If this is the case, being banned from praying at public areas for example, this is in fact not a true freedom of religion, this is the enforcement of secularism, which in itself is an ideology. If you look from a secular angle, what is religion but an ideology? And in that case since it is an ideology, why should it be given any different treatment from another ideology, in this case, secularism?
The American constitution etc. were founded with reference to Christian principles and there is no denying this. It would be silly to get rid of the ten commandments from government ground in denial. Even if you do not believe in God, these Christian scripts were in many ways guidlines to the birth of American democracy. If one really has issues with the idea of God, then one can simply look at them as historical scripts. Certainly, non tolerance of even THAT idea makes the person with the issue with religion the bigot. If he will not honor faiths of others, why should anyone honor his lack of faith?
June 1st, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
No matter the church should hold power or not, Politics is not a neccesity for its existance. Every religion in this world have a primary goal or focus: Religion is spiritual guidance and cleansing of the soul. So therefore, I do believe in the seperation between the church and state and the reason is that the church has the potential of becoming the most powerful lobby in US history creating a fracture in the balance of political power.

World leaders can turn towards God for prayer, but to dissolve it in Political issues can be harming towards others.
June 1st, 2005  
Molly Pitcher
 
U.S. Constitution:

Quote:
Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That's it right there in the Constitution's Bill of Rights. Neither for nor against religion. That's called seperation.
June 1st, 2005  
behemoth79
 
 
the 1st amendment was not meant to say that the the state could not be motivated or inspired from the church. It was supposed to prevent national religion like the Church of England. The founding fathers had no intention of making the church and state enemies like it has been twisted to by secular humansts. The founding fathers wanted the laws to coincide with judeo-christian thought as long as it did not interfere with other major religions. Thats why i mentioned the three branch idea coming from the Bible.

Also who is to say that religion has no place in politics. (I dont know about other religions thats why im only using christian examples). The Bible has many examples of Jesus conversing with religious leaders of the time. And politics in general as well (Matthew 23; Genesis 9:6; Psalm 2; Isaiah 9; Revelation 19) Saying politics and religion is absurd.

Here is a modern-day example of religion and politics. One of the campaigning ploys of President Bush was to assert that he would press for a ban on gay-marriage in order to gain more votes from the Bible-belt.
June 1st, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Behemoth made an excellent point.