senojekips
Active member
I think what you meant is that it perhaps sounded like what you imagined a combat situation to be like. Hardly a valid comparison I would think, unless you had experienced close combat.
Second Australian VC awarded in Afghanistan.
I remember saying on this forum that everytime they give a medal of honor, it means that the person who got it had to go through hell to get this honor...
Maybe he did, I dont know... But the first description I got doesnt explain how bad the situation was...
I can take a very "normal" combat situation and give you the same report.
A group of soldier is showered with machine gun fire... They drop to the ground, they are "pinned". Suppressive fire from a gunship/artillery can give an opening, and a soldier is more than enough to flank and take out the machinegunner and his buddies... It's risky. But it's combat. Repeat the scenario a few times for every machine gun nest.
Very impressive, very dangerous... Requires a lot of valor and courage. But is it unique in a war? I dont think so.
But as someone explained here... Maybe that the situation was much worse than just a simple machine gun nest.
But my point is that the report was poor in quality...
Maybe he did, I dont know... But the first description I got doesnt explain how bad the situation was...
I can take a very "normal" combat situation and give you the same report.
A group of soldier is showered with machine gun fire... They drop to the ground, they are "pinned". Suppressive fire from a gunship/artillery can give an opening, and a soldier is more than enough to flank and take out the machinegunner and his buddies... It's risky. But it's combat. Repeat the scenario a few times for every machine gun nest.
Very impressive, very dangerous... Requires a lot of valor and courage. But is it unique in a war? I dont think so.
But as someone explained here... Maybe that the situation was much worse than just a simple machine gun nest.
But my point is that the report was poor in quality...
GHR
Active member
It's like hearing a virgin talk about sex.
So it's a piece of cake? nothing special? happens in every war!
There is a difference between masturbating and having sex - experience!
That's why we understand and you just think oh well! happens in all wars, no big deal.
GHR
Active member
Unlike the war movies, you just don’t expose your own position and calmly fire at the enemy. When a person is being shot at or about to be shot at, his primary concern is not to get hit. This has to do with a survival instinct, which only fools or suicidal maniacs do not have. It takes a real fool to ignore enemy rounds and expose oneself while aiming at the enemy. Of course if there are no other options it takes a great deal of bravery. This guy took the initiative and exposed his own position in order to draw fire away from his patrol.
The term 'being pinned down' means that the individual pinned down has been intimidated by enemy fire and his survival instinct is going strong. When a person or unit is pinned down, they have lost the upper hand and are unable to return accurate fire. This is the worst thing that can happen to you. When a person is suppressed by enemy fire then the enemy will very likely close in, surround you and kill you. A machine gun is an intimidating weapon and a single MG can gain fire superiority over an entire company. What he did was essential because it gave the TB someone else to shoot at and if the enemy is shooting at one of your team mates then they aren't shooting at you and you are no longer pinned down. He probably assessed that the only solution was to reveal himself in an attempt to gain the upper hand.
Is it medal material? Hell yes!
The term 'being pinned down' means that the individual pinned down has been intimidated by enemy fire and his survival instinct is going strong. When a person or unit is pinned down, they have lost the upper hand and are unable to return accurate fire. This is the worst thing that can happen to you. When a person is suppressed by enemy fire then the enemy will very likely close in, surround you and kill you. A machine gun is an intimidating weapon and a single MG can gain fire superiority over an entire company. What he did was essential because it gave the TB someone else to shoot at and if the enemy is shooting at one of your team mates then they aren't shooting at you and you are no longer pinned down. He probably assessed that the only solution was to reveal himself in an attempt to gain the upper hand.
Is it medal material? Hell yes!
SigJohnson
Your mum
Dead set, if I met some people, I would punch them in the ovaries and make some caviar. This would be the most meaningful their life would be. Can't stand the absolute b******t that comes from the keyboards of some people.
Scrap that, not people, trolls.
Scrap that, not people, trolls.
Well, maybe that GHR should write the next article...
And I will think about this "survival instinct" thingy... Never was under fire to know about it... I know that some people "freeze" when there is danger. Maybe that they act enough to take cover before "freezing" or something like that... But you can overcome this fear with experience. Our minds get used somehow to keep their ability to think and act...
I will meditate on this information anyway...
And one question, what kind of support they had there? They talk about "close air support" but they dont say if it's an Apache or a side machine gun on a transport helicopter...
And if it's a gunship, how come that an attack helicopter wasnt able to suppress machine guns?
And I will think about this "survival instinct" thingy... Never was under fire to know about it... I know that some people "freeze" when there is danger. Maybe that they act enough to take cover before "freezing" or something like that... But you can overcome this fear with experience. Our minds get used somehow to keep their ability to think and act...
I will meditate on this information anyway...
And one question, what kind of support they had there? They talk about "close air support" but they dont say if it's an Apache or a side machine gun on a transport helicopter...
And if it's a gunship, how come that an attack helicopter wasnt able to suppress machine guns?
brinktk
Active member
I tried to explain it to him. We all tried to explain it to him. Apparently, none of us know what we are talking about. I've never run into a person who disregards the experience of professionals in any other profession. Could you imagine a patient trying to tell a doctor that the brain surgery he just conducted was not all that complicated...just another day in the office. In any other profession this would be absolutely unacceptable, but for some reason, people think that they can comment with authority about the military because they've seen better in movies, or read better in books.
Fact is, this soldier is a badass. He seriously messed up the TBs day and saved his buddies in the process. It wasn't a single act, it was continuous over several hours. Think about that, several hours of sustained bravery while having your ass handed to you by MG fire. A few seconds of bravery is about the most that can be expected from any BRAVE soldier. There is a correlation to bravery in combat...The more bravery, the more there is a chance that you get dead. But that's what makes this guy remarkable. EVERY soldier knows about this correlation. This guy did it, and continued to do it even when all, including himself, knew that he had already done enough. He could have laid there and tried to let the arty and helos take out the enemy...maybe they would be alive by the time they killed them...maybe not. He made a decision to say FVck that, and took the situation into his own hands. He single handedly regained the initiative and took out the people who were responsible for bringing that threat to him and his buddies in the first place.
There's no such thing as normal combat. There's no routine day in combat. It's always different and each situation has factors that just can't be quantified. Murphy is a ***** and will do everything in his power to make the easiest thing hard and the hard thing impossible. This guy was in one of those impossible situations which usually leads to an entire team getting killed or wounded. This guy changed that. He knew it would probably lead to his death, but that didn't matter. The fact he didn't die does not detract one bit from his Valor. That just means the laws of averages were working in his favor that day. Take it from us. We are experienced in these matters. We know the complexities of the modern battlefield. We understand the type of warfare that this soldier fought in. MANY of us have fought this type of warfare ourselves. We're not telling you that we don't agree because we hate you. We're telling you because we know what merits recognition, and this guy definitely merits it. It's not a vendetta, it's not bullying, it's simply we KNOW what we are talking about when it comes to combat. I'm sure that in what ever you do for a living, we would ceed to your expertise in that area. This is our expertise, this is our area, you would be wise to do the same.
Fact is, this soldier is a badass. He seriously messed up the TBs day and saved his buddies in the process. It wasn't a single act, it was continuous over several hours. Think about that, several hours of sustained bravery while having your ass handed to you by MG fire. A few seconds of bravery is about the most that can be expected from any BRAVE soldier. There is a correlation to bravery in combat...The more bravery, the more there is a chance that you get dead. But that's what makes this guy remarkable. EVERY soldier knows about this correlation. This guy did it, and continued to do it even when all, including himself, knew that he had already done enough. He could have laid there and tried to let the arty and helos take out the enemy...maybe they would be alive by the time they killed them...maybe not. He made a decision to say FVck that, and took the situation into his own hands. He single handedly regained the initiative and took out the people who were responsible for bringing that threat to him and his buddies in the first place.
There's no such thing as normal combat. There's no routine day in combat. It's always different and each situation has factors that just can't be quantified. Murphy is a ***** and will do everything in his power to make the easiest thing hard and the hard thing impossible. This guy was in one of those impossible situations which usually leads to an entire team getting killed or wounded. This guy changed that. He knew it would probably lead to his death, but that didn't matter. The fact he didn't die does not detract one bit from his Valor. That just means the laws of averages were working in his favor that day. Take it from us. We are experienced in these matters. We know the complexities of the modern battlefield. We understand the type of warfare that this soldier fought in. MANY of us have fought this type of warfare ourselves. We're not telling you that we don't agree because we hate you. We're telling you because we know what merits recognition, and this guy definitely merits it. It's not a vendetta, it's not bullying, it's simply we KNOW what we are talking about when it comes to combat. I'm sure that in what ever you do for a living, we would ceed to your expertise in that area. This is our expertise, this is our area, you would be wise to do the same.
senojekips
Active member
And some people don't want to see the point, because it wouldn't suit their argument.
I realised this some time ago and just let it slide. You can't educate people who never wanted to hear the facts in the first place.
senojekips, selective hearing strikes both ways mate.
senojekips
Active member
But of course, if you say so,... you appear to be the resident expert on military affairs.
tomtom22
Chief Engineer
Don't you mean the resident expert on EVERYTHING?
SigJohnson
Your mum
More like expert of wanking.
****ing troll
And very good post brinktk, hit the nail on the head.
Wish we could hit other things on the head with such ease!
****ing troll
And very good post brinktk, hit the nail on the head.
Wish we could hit other things on the head with such ease!
Spartan613
Active member
Come on Mr Moderator, time to Alpha Strike this clown. Seriously, how long are you going to let him ply his trolling trade?
GHR
Active member
Spartan - Copy that - Golf Hotel Romeo – Out.
Moderator-Actual – This is Golf Hotel Romeo – do you call a Tango Four on LeMask? – Over!
SigJohnson
Your mum
At least he hasn't got a clue what you are saying!
senojekips
Active member
Arrr,... C,mon you blokes, you know me, I'd argue with my own shadow given half a chance. I just love a bit of argy bargy, any time anywhere, if I think my opponent is worthy of the time and effort, but this is one of the few issues on this forum where I've been able to walk away without so much as a backward sarcastic comment.
It's a bloody poor quality argument where I wont stick my oar in.
It's a bloody poor quality argument where I wont stick my oar in.
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