Royal Navy F***ed - Page 2




 
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May 23rd, 2007  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukio
I think its really hard nowadays, to fund a modern , ready military properly in a democracy. But, if you look at the Soviet example decades ago, they had a huge military , hundreds, of tanks, and planes, and millions of military personnel.

But, even under strict communism, they went bankrupt to. Its a scary thought, the UK's Royal Navy is a key player in maritime security on the war on terror. Problems with them, may lead to problems with the other members of the coalition on the war on terror.

(i cant really say much on it, and if id said anything wrong, just kindly correct me)
It's not hard to fund a modern day military force. The problem with the UK right now is it's leftist social welfare economics programs. If the UK stopped spending money on welfare and other feel good measure communist like social welfare programs and folks actually worked for what they need instead of keeping their hands out asking for scraps from the government then the Royal Navy wouldn't be in this issue.

The Soviets went under because social welfare programs don't frakking work. A Soviet citizen said it best... "They pretend to pay us and we'll pretend to work".

The UK (along with France) is in the same boat as the USSR was.

The USA has been doing good (historical) because of our strong capitalistic
work ethic. The idea that you work for what you want instead of asking for a hand out. But sadly that is changing in today's society.
May 24th, 2007  
Kirruth
 
 
Well, I must admit, I am frustrated by what is happening to the Royal Navy.

There are some great ships coming down the pipe: the new Astute class attack submarines and the Daring (Type 45) destroyers are leading edge, but they are already several years late...and getting later... and there will be too few of them (around a third less than there should be).

Meanwhile we are having to make do and mend with a set of ships better suited to the Cold War.

It doesn't help that as the budgets get cut, ships with a very clear purpose ("destroyer = blows stuff up") become general role vessels, "destroyer = blows stuff up and supports humanitarian mission and is the hub of networked warfare capability and launches drones for reconnaissance and...", pushing up their cost, delaying their implementation and generally creating a mess.

Combine that with the fact that, although there has been some new money, most of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations are coming out of the existing military budgets, and there is a serious degrading of capability happening, at least short term.

I think we need to focus on the fact that, although its not taken very seriously here in the UK, and seen as political spin, there really is a global war going on: and the sooner people wake up and smell the coffee the better.
May 24th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
So bottom line reads the Navy is suffering because the budget is being raped and the budget is not being increased because people don't want TWAT (The War Against Terror) to inconvenience them... ??
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May 24th, 2007  
Yossarian
 
 
I think more people need to realize, that the nations in the war on terror, are at WAR. 50, to 60 years ago this would have been big. But, if you looked around a city or town in America, you couldn't even see the slightest sign on a global conflicts effects on the citizens.

And socialist ideas are beginning to change the way some nations operate. And, referring to what 5.56X45mm said. People are asking for more, and giving less. I hate to remind them, but, in a democracy like in the UK and U.S., the people are the root source of power in a government, and, if the people, the ones who give the power to the government, lose interests, and neglect it, then, the government may have to adopt socialist or communist ways to keep in operation.

But, looking at the situation, its easy to remember the well known phrase used almost 50 yrs ago,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

I cant really agrue much on the UK's situation, and I will admit, I dint know much about their social status, so I can only go so far.
May 28th, 2007  
Kirruth
 
 
I've been reflecting on this a little bit.

I'm not sure if it's socialist ideas (given that socialist societies can be very militaristic) so much as consumerism. People do seem to focus on their next house, their next car, their plasma screen TV, and forget that the security they enjoy has to be paid for too.

There's also been a misunderstanding that just because terrorism can't be defeated by military means, that the security provided by the military is unimportant - when in fact it is military security that stops terrorism from escalating into genocidal civil war.

The enemy may be hard to kill in the mountains or in the slums of Baghdad - and in the end diplomacy may need to be used alongside force - but keeping him bottled up by controlling the air, the sea and the deserts is a key part of victory.
May 28th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Excellent observation mate... now, run for PM.
May 28th, 2007  
Kirruth
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Excellent observation mate... now, run for PM.
Actually, I am a politician, Bulldogg, but not quite PM yet
May 29th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Well shave my arse and call me Fred... quit soddin about and get on to Downing Street ffs.
May 29th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirruth
Well, I must admit, I am frustrated by what is happening to the Royal Navy.

There are some great ships coming down the pipe: the new Astute class attack submarines and the Daring (Type 45) destroyers are leading edge, but they are already several years late...and getting later... and there will be too few of them (around a third less than there should be).

Meanwhile we are having to make do and mend with a set of ships better suited to the Cold War.

It doesn't help that as the budgets get cut, ships with a very clear purpose ("destroyer = blows stuff up") become general role vessels, "destroyer = blows stuff up and supports humanitarian mission and is the hub of networked warfare capability and launches drones for reconnaissance and...", pushing up their cost, delaying their implementation and generally creating a mess.

Combine that with the fact that, although there has been some new money, most of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations are coming out of the existing military budgets, and there is a serious degrading of capability happening, at least short term.

I think we need to focus on the fact that, although its not taken very seriously here in the UK, and seen as political spin, there really is a global war going on: and the sooner people wake up and smell the coffee the better.
The United States Navy hot bunks Missile Boats, using Gold and Blue Crews for its SSB Fleet.
The United States Navy has no trouble with such, and there are no loyalty issues that I know of to deal with as they are both Crews of the same Sub, one is just called Gold, while the other is called Blue.
This allows the Ballistic Missile Submarine to stay out on Duty longer while giving one Crew a much needed break.

Or would you rather a RIF to affect Naval Personnel? I read you do not have many Ships, so, one is left with few options.

Do you see yourself putting forth legislation calling for an increase in Taxes in order to go back up to a more Cold War Level of Active Duty Ships in the near future?
Willl you run on such a platform?

I know this, such would help ease some of the (undue) burden which I personally perceive is placed on the United States of America by other NATO partners.

Best of luck getting your Compatriots on board.
May 29th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
The problem in the UK is that we are in denial about the global war, and the enemy within. We just don't want to believe. We have learned to distrust politicians in a big way, which is not good for democracy. This is what the last 10 years have done. those who always swore when their turn for power came, they would destroy the status quo, have done their stuff. I happened to search the net the other day for a Patriotic Poetry site. That's how i found you. Lots of US, plenty of world wide. NO UK. Nothing. It has almost become forbidden. They've buried Elgar's work (Land of Hope and Glory etc) with him. On the other hand, everything we deplore has almost become compulsory.They think the British public will continue to roll over and go to sleep. We'll see. In any English Pub, you will find them with me, don't worry. We are still here guys.

What a navy we used to have; sons of the sea, we are. An Island nation. they are Trying to stuff us into a bottle! The genie will out.
 


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