Roe vs. Wade

[major liability]

I'll never be able to support any law that tells a woman whether she can or cannot have an abortion. It's her body. Pregnancy causes a lot of physical changes (your brain actually shrinks a little temporarily too) and giving birth is painful, so I think it is totally wrong that anyone thinks they have the moral authority to tell people whether they have to keep the child if the mother doesn't want it.

I also think morning after pills are a great invention, especially because condoms are just not as good, and the world is already overpopulated. Once they're in a steady relationship, I don't know anyone my age who wouldn't prefer pills to other means.

Damien, the government already has a list of things we can or can't do with our bodies, but in case you haven't noticed, tons of people disregard these laws. And I don't see why they shouldn't; it's really none of the government's business unless you are harming someone other than yourself or endangering others by driving impaired, for example.

Edit: Sorry if this offends anyone, I'm just saying it how I see it.

 

[Damien435]

It's really none of the government's business unless you are harming someone other than yourself.

So like ending another person's life could be considered harming someone other than yourself?

 

[The Other Guy]

The child didn't make a mistake, I did, I should be the one to pick up the slack, not the child.

Yet the child usually ends up picking up the slack when they're born unwanted anyway.

 

[Damien435]

**** happens. I was planned, both my parents were married and had decent jobs when I was born, yet my family ended up declaring bankruptcy, divorced and our house was foreclosed on. I have lingering health issues from things we couldn't afford to take care of when I was little that I am getting taken care of by ones and twos as I get the money saved up. **** happens. The Hilton's had all sorts of money, that didn't stop their child from being ****ed up six ways to Tuesday. Is a life without all the privileges of wealth worse than no life at all? So they'll have a ****ed up childhood, that doesn't stop them from moving on and still living a happy, successful life. There's this thing called adoption, I know, another "A" word ZOMG! Thousands of ready, willing and able parents want to adopt but for an assortment of reasons can't, let those parents adopted the "unwanted' children. Just because a child is unwanted doesn't warrant depriving said child of their future.

 

[Del Boy]

Good post Damien. That health situation, not being able to get treatment I mean, is a very sad matter. We just have to treat our kids properly, as civilised societies - somehow. We have to find a way to mend them, not kill them.

And we have to address the question of preventing unwanted conception.
I used to tell my boys 'never have sex with someone you would not be prepared to marry'. I would now add ' never have sex with someone you would not be prepared to share the responsibility of a child with'.

I know that this is unrealistic in real life - but at least it makes the point to consider in their minds. Children are precious treasures - not belongings to be tossed aside like unwanted presents.

A start would be the drastic reduction of the permissable period allowed for terminations.

BTW - as far as our own bodies are concerned, the law does not permit us to switch our own light off when WE decide we have had enough, even in the face of devastating terminal ailments. That wouldn't hurt anyone else, and would enable us to retain our dignity, which is all we have in the last resort. So much for choice.

 

[The Other Guy]

Good post Damien. That health situation, not being able to get treatment I mean, is a very sad matter. We just have to treat our kids properly, as civilised societies - somehow. We have to find a way to mend them, not kill them.

And we have to address the question of preventing unwanted conception.
I used to tell my boys 'never have sex with someone you would not be prepared to marry'. I would now add ' never have sex with someone you would not be prepared to share the responsibility of a child with'.

I know that this is unrealistic in real life - but at least it makes the point to consider in their minds. Children are precious treasures - not belongings to be tossed aside like unwanted presents.

A start would be the drastic reduction of the permissable period allowed for terminations.

BTW - as far as our own bodies are concerned, the law does not permit us to switch our own light off when WE decide we have had enough, even in the face of devastating terminal ailments. That wouldn't hurt anyone else, and would enable us to retain our dignity, which is all we have in the last resort. So much for choice.

I agree, good post. However, there are a large number of people out there who will not listen to this, and who will abandon their kids or mistreat them because they are unwanted. If abortions are at least offered, that lowers these numbers of abused and neglected kids.

 

[pixiedustboo]

I agree, good post. However, there are a large number of people out there who will not listen to this, and who will abandon their kids or mistreat them because they are unwanted. If abortions are at least offered, that lowers these numbers of abused and neglected kids.

This was a good thing to bring up.

I don't agree abortion is the answer to this however. More classes in school, better sex education, ALONG with the moral edge of that sexual education.

(Or heck, maybe licenses for some people in order to breed). :roll:

 

[Infern0]

time to lighten the mood a bit

 

[The Other Guy]

I don't agree abortion is the answer to this however. More classes in school, better sex education, ALONG with the moral edge of that sexual education.

I have taken such classes and can vouch that the majority slept through them. (Not me, though)

 

[Del Boy]

I have taken such classes and can vouch that the majority slept through them.

Well, there is part of the problem, glad to hear you were an exception.
Just imagine - a little care, a little self-discipline, a little unselfishness could save a baby from death. Worth the attempt, I reckon.

Mmmmm......................................................hand over mouth.

 

[MontyB]

Well, there is part of the problem, glad to hear you were an exception.
Just imagine - a little care, a little self-discipline, a little unselfishness could save a baby from death. Worth the attempt, I reckon.

Mmmmm......................................................hand over mouth.

Care to indicate any time in recorded history when this has actually worked?

The abstinence crew always crack me up with the repetition of a logic that has never worked at any stage in human development, not that its a bad idea but then theoretically neither is communism.

 

[pixiedustboo]

Care to indicate any time in recorded history when this has actually worked?

The abstinence crew always crack me up with the repetition of a logic that has never worked at any stage in human development.

*Waves hand.* It worked for ME. So there.

Maybe alone with ABSTINENCE programs morals and (gasp, dare I say it) religious ideas in the household should be taught along with it. If the parents won't do it, then perhaps schools should. Certainly the morals part.

P.S. I'm a part of the abstinence crew. Along with keeping young men and women from having to make the abortion decision it also takes away the worry of STD's.

 

[The Other Guy]

where was it on TV that I saw it that though abstinence progams did their intended job, they increased amounts of oral and **** sex among teens...

 

[major liability]

I have no problem with abstinence programs as long as they don't exaggerate the STD rate or bend the truth to make having sex look like a bad thing. In the end, it's always up to the individual to choose, hopefully with unbiased facts. Abstinence works well for some, but I can tell you right now a lot of the people I know couldn't live like that.

I also don't think anyone shows up at an abortion clinic all cheerful and ready to go. It's not something anyone wants to do, but sometimes it's the only option that won't destroy their lives.

 

[MontyB]

I have no problem with abstinence programs as long as they don't exaggerate the STD rate or bend the truth to make having sex look like a bad thing. In the end, it's always up to the individual to choose, hopefully with unbiased facts. Abstinence works well for some, but I can tell you right now a lot of the people I know couldn't live like that.

I also don't think anyone shows up at an abortion clinic all cheerful and ready to go. It's not something anyone wants to do, but sometimes it's the only option that won't destroy their lives.

I dont have any problems with them either but it is ridiculous to believe that they are going to work 100% of the time and much like every other rule and regulation on the planet only those who were never the problem in the first place adhere to them.

 

[Del Boy]

Care to indicate any time in recorded history when this has actually worked?

The abstinence crew always crack me up with the repetition of a logic that has never worked at any stage in human development, not that its a bad idea but then theoretically neither is communism.

Hold hard there. Where did I mention abstinence? Care to indicate? In fact I was referring to trying to avoid unwanted conception.

And the 'abstinence crew'? What? What crew are you - the promiscuous crew? Please.

How about a little more politeness .

 

[The Other Guy]

I dont have any problems with them either but it is ridiculous to believe that they are going to work 100% of the time and much like every other rule and regulation on the planet only those who were never the problem in the first place adhere to them.

Exactly. And you can't enforce it easily. Even if you did, that's pulling an Iran there...

 

[pixiedustboo]

where was it on TV that I saw it that though abstinence progams did their intended job, they increased amounts of oral and **** sex among teens...

If it was doing it's intended job then those kids should NOT have been having oral and **** sex. That is not abstaining.

Geesh. Is taking care of it oneself THAT big of a deal?



(I kind of want to do another topic on this, but I don't know if it should be pulled out of this topic, so I'll leave my comments here).

I have no problem with abstinence programs as long as they don't exaggerate the STD rate or bend the truth to make having sex look like a bad thing. In the end, it's always up to the individual to choose, hopefully with unbiased facts. Abstinence works well for some, but I can tell you right now a lot of the people I know couldn't live like that.

I also don't think anyone shows up at an abortion clinic all cheerful and ready to go. It's not something anyone wants to do, but sometimes it's the only option that won't destroy their lives.

Abstinence programs don't need to exaggerate the STD rate. And I think a decent abstinence program shouldn't (and doesn't) make having sex look like a bad thing. I think some programs should certainly have more sexual facts than some others have - because I think that is when kids get curious and start experimenting with others, when they aren't given some facts about their own body.

'If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.' Sexually, if one isn't in a place to support an 'accident' that could come with having sex then they shouldn't be doing it.

 

[major liability]

If you want to abstain and it works for you, that's great. But I guess what I'm getting at is, why should you be allowed to tell other people what's right for them? Anything can happen in the heat of the moment. Banning morning after pills and abortions would lead to a lot of angry parents, neglected children, back alley abortions, and yet more overpopulation, which I believe is the #1 threat to the continued existence of the human race as we know it.

 

[Del Boy]

OK - If folk who do not want children have no wish to abstain, find contraception too careless an option and are so concerned re. overpopulation and unwanted children, I have the ideal solution for them that would suit everyone, especially the non-religious.

Here it is - male sterilisation. Easy, effective, caring , unselfish and protective of women. No need for condoms or pills, everybody is happy, paticularly innocent babies who will not be conceived and then killed .

Get it? NO lives ruined.