The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe! - Page 48




 
--
 
November 30th, 2005  
gladius
 
An EMP is the equivalent of using a convetional bomb, as a civilized state you can only counter with the same means. Just because it uses a nuclear bomb doesn't mean the effects are nuclear.

Will the West really use a Nuclear weapons and risk more real nuclear strikes against us, I don't think so.

The West is not insane.

As long as the West thinks it still has a chance of winning the war conventionally it will not use nuclear weapons.

The only time the West will use nukes if it is facing absolute and certain defeat, and even that is questionable.

Maybe you are insane and would like to use nukes right at the begining and pursue a MAD situation and destroy the whole world, when there is a chance our side may still win without doing this.
December 1st, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
And how will the West know that the Muslim's fired a missile and it detonated without knowing that it merely detonated in the upper atmosphere to knock out their electronics? All they will see is a missle go up, a big bang, and then nothing.

In the 70's a missile test firing from a submarine in the atlantic nearly sparked WWIII because the US, even though it was our own missile, thought that it was launched by the Soviet's. So, given that example, do you think it will take much to make us launch when we are at war against an enemy with nukes and they launch a missile?
December 1st, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:

The crusades were started because of 400 years of continual Muslim conquest of Christian lands, to get those lands back. It was not a one sided affair as you would have us believe, get your historical perspective straight. Not to mention the Muslims did invade Europe getting all the way to Vienna and parts of Spain, even though at that time Europe was technologically superior.
The arabs entered Spain in 711 BC and they were expulsed by the spanish in 1492. When the Otomans aproached Viena, Spain was not invaded. An arab army has has not putted their feet on spain sience 1492, just to clarify
--
December 1st, 2005  
gladius
 
You are right.

I knew this prior to posting. I even remember reading some your posting on this subject, they were quite informative. I just didn't feel like explaining everything in lenghty detail, and just wanted to post short summary, so I lumped everything in one piece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
And how will the West know that the Muslim's fired a missile and it detonated without knowing that it merely detonated in the upper atmosphere to knock out their electronics? All they will see is a missle go up, a big bang, and then nothing.

In the 70's a missile test firing from a submarine in the atlantic nearly sparked WWIII because the US, even though it was our own missile, thought that it was launched by the Soviet's. So, given that example, do you think it will take much to make us launch when we are at war against an enemy with nukes and they launch a missile?
There are plenty of fail safes to prevent a nuclear war. The fail safe that prevented it during the 70's will do so in the future.

Besides I think every one know that the Islamics will be at a disavantage if they used nukes on the West, knowing this I beleive the West will act acordingly. That doesn't mean they can't hit the West with nukes, just not in porportion to what with can hit them with, it just makes no sense for them to use it against us when then can hit with EMP instead, ---its simply basic strategy and the military will know this.

At this stage in the future the West will probably already know that an EMP strike is forthcoming, although there will not be much time to prepare for it. Still even if most the military sector is saved, with the loss of comunications it will be very hard to use all that high tech equiopment to its full advatage, like its suposed to be used, coordinated and on the fly. The civilian sector on the other hand will be severly crippled no matter what.
December 1st, 2005  
Morten
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
You are right.

I knew this prior to posting. I even remember reading some your posting on this subject, they were quite informative. I just didn't feel like explaining everything in lenghty detail, and just wanted to post short summary, so I lumped everything in one piece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
And how will the West know that the Muslim's fired a missile and it detonated without knowing that it merely detonated in the upper atmosphere to knock out their electronics? All they will see is a missle go up, a big bang, and then nothing.

In the 70's a missile test firing from a submarine in the atlantic nearly sparked WWIII because the US, even though it was our own missile, thought that it was launched by the Soviet's. So, given that example, do you think it will take much to make us launch when we are at war against an enemy with nukes and they launch a missile?
There are plenty of fail safes to prevent a nuclear war. The fail safe that prevented it during the 70's will do so in the future.

Besides I think every one know that the Islamics will be at a disavantage if they used nukes on the West, knowing this I beleive the West will act acordingly. That doesn't mean they can't hit the West with nukes, just not in porportion to what with can hit them with, it just makes no sense for them to use it against us when then can hit with EMP instead, ---its simply basic strategy and the military will know this.

At this stage in the future the West will probably already know that an EMP strike is forthcoming, although there will not be much time to prepare for it. Still even if most the military sector is saved, with the loss of comunications it will be very hard to use all that high tech equiopment to its full advatage, like its suposed to be used, coordinated and on the fly. The civilian sector on the other hand will be severly crippled no matter what.
u know... nations see a war coming.. its not something that they find out about in the last moment... what i mean with this is that the US would have warned the middle eastern that if they use any nuke for any purpose the US will strike back hard!.. thats a realistic statement... its not like.. OMG! LOOK! they got billions of men and have EMP'ed us without us EVER knowing anything like that would happend! OMFG

and the west would be ****ed if they got EMP'ed and that would mean that they would lose!.. everything in the US army is being renovated into the digital age meaning that EMP = Defeat... nukes is the only option after that!...

but i do believe that the US in 1 or a few years, have found a working defense against the EMP... nothing is invincible and considering how fast the technology is evolving atm its a pretty realistic assumption(sp?)...
December 1st, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten
u know... nations see a war coming.. its not something that they find out about in the last moment... what i mean with this is that the US would have warned the middle eastern that if they use any nuke for any purpose the US will strike back hard!.. thats a realistic statement... its not like.. OMG! LOOK! they got billions of men and have EMP'ed us without us EVER knowing anything like that would happend! OMFG

and the west would be ****ed if they got EMP'ed and that would mean that they would lose!.. everything in the US army is being renovated into the digital age meaning that EMP = Defeat... nukes is the only option after that!...

but i do believe that the US in 1 or a few years, have found a working defense against the EMP... nothing is invincible and considering how fast the technology is evolving atm its a pretty realistic assumption(sp?)...
Did you read my last post, did I not say they will see this coming. If you read throughout the thread I have said the same thing. I nevre said this will take us completely by surprise.

First of all how do you know the US military will get defeated so easily even with EMP. Europe will be overun to a great degree, but the US still exist and can still strike back later.

The West not risk a nuclear war when there is still a chance to strike back.

There will most likely be EMP defense in the future for the military, however the civilian sector will be vunerable which will make it harder to go into full mobilization for total war, not mention a communications blackout at the onset of the war. This will give the enemy a jumpstart during the opening stages to drive deep into Europe. After the West gets over the intitial shock of the invasion, and long as there are NATO forces within continental Europe, then they will be able to delay the enemy. If they can delay him long enough then the eventual counter-attack can be staged, then West will still have a chance. Thats why they will not use nuclear weapons, it would be insane to do so at this point.
December 1st, 2005  
Morten
 
 
my point was that the US would be threatening the middle east about the use of Nuclear weapons, no matter if its a direct attack or not... no matter if its used to kill with a blast or to create an EMP effect.

i dont think the middle east, as u say urself, would dare to create the EMP effect, if the US issued such a warning... pretty much halting the use of EMP.

theres no way in hell that they would just let them EMP us or themselfes(sp?).
December 2nd, 2005  
gladius
 
First of all how do you know the US will even threaten the use of nukes to fight EMP? The US could issue that warning, it may work depends who is in charge, if it is a tough President then maybe, only maybe it will work. But that is a big IF.

What if they do use EMP anyways, do you really think the US will risk bombing them with nukes, when they can nuke New York or Chicago. I don't think the US will risk that no matter who is in charge. They simply won't.

The effect of EMP does not warrant the use of nuclear weapons. I don't see why the enemy will believe that the US will use nukes to strike back against EMP. So they will go ahead and use EMP anyways. The only time the US will use nukes for sure is if they send a terrorist to nuke one of our cities.
December 2nd, 2005  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
Bush said he'd use nukes in Iraq if his troops were attacked by Biochem weapons.

Also, doesn't the US now have a working ABM system?
December 2nd, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohmar Deathstrike
Bush said he'd use nukes in Iraq if his troops were attacked by Biochem weapons.

Also, doesn't the US now have a working ABM system?
No... he never said that.

DoD talked about possible counter-attacks if Iraqis use CW