Govt employees & agencys are rewarded for expanding thier empire, not shrinking it. One woman told me recently her husband was offered a job, but it payed only $20 a week more than what the handouts were. Some 20 something female was quoted some time back as saying Why should I "ruin my health" (i.e.work) for $20 an hour?
"Rights for the Rulers" Versus "Rights for Individuals"
Rob Henderson
Banned
Of course, I cannot deny that a lot of people who are drawing from those social programs don't actually NEED the money they are taking, but until we can sort out who actually needs it from those who are taking advantage of it, I'd rather give it to the ones who don't need it so the ones who do need it continue to get it.
HokieMSG
Active member
And as long as we do that we will have people who take advantage of the system.
As to sorting them out. Maybe we should make them work for the agency that is providing the aid. Wait Ronald Reagan tried that when he was governor of California. He was sued and lost. :roll:
Rob Henderson
Banned
I realize that and accept it. Like I said, I'd rather the programs continue and give aid to those who truly need it than for the agencies to shut down and stop providing aid altogether.
Reagan's solution, I felt, was a good one. I was disappointed that he lost that case.
Reagan's solution, I felt, was a good one. I was disappointed that he lost that case.
Rob Henderson
Banned
It's impossible to say when enough will be enough. Unless our society ever evolves to the point that currency is needless, enough will never be enough. There will always be the have and have-nots. What we, as those who have, must do is help to alleviate some of the problems that the have-nots deal with on a day to day basis. It all boils down to compassion for others. Some folks have that bone, and others don't. It's an unfortunate truth to realize, sure enough.
There's more compassion in a Liberal's heart, than funds in the Treasury.
Rob Henderson
Banned
It's an unfortunate reality. But you're correct.
HokieMSG
Active member
That aint never gonna happen. In order for it to happen there need to be fundamental paradigm shifts in society. People will need to work and better themselves because they want to, not because they have to. You are correct that more people should actually help the needy, not just wish for it. It boils down to Caveat Emptor "Let the buyer beware". Too many people can and will take advantage of other peoples good will and until society views change, this will continue to be a problem. I still think that if you take money from the governement you should do some work. Plenty of things to do. Make it bad enough that people will want to get a job. My 2 cents.
HokieMSG
Active member
Too right. Always thought we should bring back the chain gangs too. If we make conditions bad enough, maybe people will prefer actual work and become productive members of society.
Rob Henderson
Banned
No **** it ain't never gonna happen. Trust me. I realize that it's never going to happen. And that's why I will advocate government aid programs until it DOES happen.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Personally I only support programs that are going to help create or maintain productive people.
That is education and healthcare.
Like I said, it's not so much the system but competence.
And MontyB is right, if you give the unproductive too much they will simply feed off the system.
That is education and healthcare.
Like I said, it's not so much the system but competence.
And MontyB is right, if you give the unproductive too much they will simply feed off the system.
HokieMSG
Active member
We already give the unproductive too much. I was in the social services office they other day helping a friend of mine and I saw a lot of people getting benefits that "looked" healthy enough to work. I realize that is a generalization but come on. If you can make your appointment at social services, maybe you can make it to work in the morning. We have diabled folks where I work too. They at least are trying to be productive.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I think the US tax system needs to be overhauled. It's so complicated that no one really knows how that thing works and worse, no one even knows where the money's going. How on earth are you supposed to axe wasteful programs that serve little or no purpose if you can't keep track of the money?
In the end, places where tax payer money needs to be spent in order to invest in the country will be tied down and wasted because of this.
In the end, places where tax payer money needs to be spent in order to invest in the country will be tied down and wasted because of this.
I like the Fair Tax proposal. Abolishes all personal & corporate taxes with a 23% sales tax. Unleashes the power of business to grow the economy with out all the distortions caused by the tax code. People will pay thier fair share regardless of income(there's a tax prebate given to everybody equal to the amount of tax payed on typical amount of food). There's trillions of $ overseas that would be repatriated because the 39% tax that exists now would go away, spurring growth here instead of somewhere alse now.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Yeah sadly I know how that tax system fails as well, I have been a great supporter of 0% personal and X% sales taxes but they have a huge problem in that they are overly punishing on low income earners.
I do not support a rebate to compensate for this as they rarely if ever keep up with inflation or the cost of living what I tend to support is either 0 sales tax on essential items or a 100% tax credit for the first $XX,000 earned.
HokieMSG
Active member
That would make it too easy to cheat. I too support the fair tax. The prebate covers the tax that a normal family would have to pay on the basics. The important fact here is that only citizens would get the prebate. Illegals would not. I would rather have the fair tax than the bloody nightmare that is our current system. A Can of Man is correct in that the convolution of the current system makes it very hard to keep track of where the money is and where it is going. The obstacle here, and this is a BIG one, is that we have lawyers and accountants writing the tax code. How else will they keep their jobs? By making it impossible for a highschool graduate to file their taxes. God help you if you have investments or income from non traditional sorces. I do and I have to pay an accountant every year to do my taxes. Pure BS if you ask me.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
A very good point.
I think there is this over complicating of things to protect their jobs. At the end of the day it makes things very inefficient. Some ways how the private sector can actually make things less efficient, as an exception to the rule. It's similar to how certain jobs are actually not that complicated but the education and qualification process is extended beyond reason so that those who are in the profession will have less competition (What, 10 years for that? F*ck it I'll do something else). I guess we haven't come that far since the time of the ancient witch doctors where an elaborate dance was performed to perfection in order to apply a bit of crushed grass on a wound. An aspiring witch doctor would have to memorize thousands of meaningless rituals to perform what would be a rather simple task.
I've never seen a tax system as complicated as that of the US.
All of this makes me very concerned about things like privately run prisons. A DEMAND for criminals? Seriously? And these companies that run these prisons would no doubt have lobbyists. Just how would they feel about effective measures for reducing crime before they happen? I'm sure they won't be too crazy about it.
I think there is this over complicating of things to protect their jobs. At the end of the day it makes things very inefficient. Some ways how the private sector can actually make things less efficient, as an exception to the rule. It's similar to how certain jobs are actually not that complicated but the education and qualification process is extended beyond reason so that those who are in the profession will have less competition (What, 10 years for that? F*ck it I'll do something else). I guess we haven't come that far since the time of the ancient witch doctors where an elaborate dance was performed to perfection in order to apply a bit of crushed grass on a wound. An aspiring witch doctor would have to memorize thousands of meaningless rituals to perform what would be a rather simple task.
I've never seen a tax system as complicated as that of the US.
All of this makes me very concerned about things like privately run prisons. A DEMAND for criminals? Seriously? And these companies that run these prisons would no doubt have lobbyists. Just how would they feel about effective measures for reducing crime before they happen? I'm sure they won't be too crazy about it.