Putin: Soviet Collapse greatest geopolitical catastrophe - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
April 26th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
I certainly hope Russia does come out well in the end. Specifically, the Russian people have been screwed over by history pretty much non-stop since time immemorial.

A prosperous and flourishing Kievian Russian kingdom was brutalized by the Mongol conquest in the 1200's. Unlike most of the Mongolian holdings, the Golden Hoard held Russia for much longer than any other land conquered by the Mongols.

Then they get the reign of the Tsars, who were exploitive, absolutist and brutally overbearing rulers. True, Russia grew to enormous proportions through conquest, but her people seldom benefitted. On top of that, the Tsars of the Russian Empire really lived it up. They and the aristocrats were insanely wealthy. The common everyday Russian was very poor and very downtrodden.

And then we come to the Russian Revolution and Communism, and the same thing happens yet again. The Communist Party Members moved right into the role of the aristocracy from Tsarist Russia. Lenin was pretty brutal. Stalin gave new meaning to the word brutality. Kruschev seems to have started out on a positive note, only to revert back to the same Stalinist police state, only with a lot less mass-murdering of the Russian people.

Then we come to the collapse of Communism the end of the USSR as a nation. Every little subkingdom the Russians had held opted for independence the moment the opportunity was given them, adding insult to injury. Now we live in a time where the Russian Mafia is terrifyingly powerful in the Russian nation. The economic collapse has left bitter feelings in the hearts of many. (For some reason, the USA, NATO and Western Europe are blamed after things did not go as planned economically.)

I'd say its about time that the Russian people have a break from all the misery. They have the population, the resources and everything else they need to become a truly great nation. (In truth, most of the "greatness" of the USSR was a grand game of smoke and mirrors and deceit. For this reason, their greatness as the USSR is often vastly overstated.) They lack the population of the USA, and are far far short of India or China, but they are still pretty big.

Long story short, I'm all in favor of Russia becoming a great nation, especially if it involves the Russian people finally doing well.
April 26th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
russia has the potential to become something great, such as heavy metals resources and plenty of land

but wheres the capital to start this???
April 27th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Russia could do nothing more and nothing less that play the Oil card, and probably gain all the capital needed to do whatever they like. If memory serves, they currently hold the second or third largest oil reserves on the planet, between them and several other former USSR states. The problem I'm predicting is that Russia wants to catch up in every category and do it too fast and all at once. It borders on being depressing how much of Russia's potential is wasted.
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Boots
April 27th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
There is also the problem of KGB & Mafia installed in the goverment, that is a pretty high handycap. At least concerning international credibility.
April 27th, 2005  
Red_Army
 
 
Vladimir Putin is full of mystery. He always comment about how he missed the Soviet Union. I wonder what type of leader Putin would be if he was in place of Mikhail Gorbachev?
April 28th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
but wheres the capital to start this???
Germany gave them something like $80 billion. I bet they're real sorry about that now.
April 28th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge 7
Quote:
but wheres the capital to start this???
Germany gave them something like $80 billion. I bet they're real sorry about that now.
Why did they give them such a amount of money? Apologize for WWII or something like that...Poor germans, when are they gonna stop paying for the mistakes of the past?
April 28th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
I believe it was as much a good will gesture as anything else and a huge plug for cooperation economically. It was certainly in their best interest to have Russia on a better financial footing and grateful to them for the support. I'm sure our German members can shed greater light on this though.
April 28th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
A substantial portion of German action intent on assisting Russia is simple: the Russian People were numerically the worst hit by Nazi Germany, the Russians are still somewhat pissed about it and Germany wants to do what they can as a result. That is one motivation. The second is obvious: All the necessary ingredients for an economic heavy hitter are there in Russia, it just isn't developed yet.

Quote:
Vladimir Putin is full of mystery. He always comment about how he missed the Soviet Union. I wonder what type of leader Putin would be if he was in place of Mikhail Gorbachev?
Make no mistake about it, if Putin had been the man in charge in the place of Gorbachev, none of Gorby's programs would have happened. He would have held control with an iron fist, anything and everything in the old Warsaw Pact would have been violently crushed the moment they tried to break with Communism ... etc. If any Warsaw Pact members had been successful, it would have been paid for in a lot of blood. So too would any alternate version of the USSR civil war and/or collapse. The factors and causes were there, with or without Gorbachev, but Putin would never had let a peaceful transition occur. I don't think he's entirely sold on Capitalism right now. Now way he'd have gone along with Capitalistic reform back then.

Putin rose to power and remains largely based upon the promise to restore the glory of the old USSR. Much of the USSR's power was faked, some of it never existing at all. Still, many look back with a sense of longing. It would be impossible to undo everything, but I truly think he would if he were able.
April 29th, 2005  
Vitaly
 
Notice how well off the main political figures in Russia are through corruption. Just recently a millionare was sent to jail for not paying taxes and his whole buisness was taken by the government. With Putin, all that needs to be said is that he is a KGB man to the core. I don't believe he really cares for the democracy at all.