President Hu and the Death Penalty - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
April 27th, 2006  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by C/1Lt Henderson
But just because the prisoner doesnt specifically say" I want to donate my organs.." doesnt mean we cant use them does it? The guy is dead, whats he gonna need em for? If im correct, the Chinese dont practice the ancient Egyptian art of burying the dead with their organs...so why cant we use em without consent? If the family needs an organ, then they get first priority, then they go down the list...whoever is first, gets the organ.
The point is that even if they are dead, it is still their body. You don't have to give him a $17k funeral, hell you can just wrap him in a paper sheet and bury him for all I care but it is still his body. What gives anyone the right to dissect the dead prisoner and bargain off his organs? Imagine if a first-rate country like the US or Britain did this; you can be sure as hell it'll be on the 10 o' clock news. It's just disrespectful of the dead IMHO.

I see this headed for corruption... rich politicians + family/associates in need of organs.... bribery.... sentence to death journalist who wrote a critical paper on government.... death sentence carried out in less than 48 hours... happy rich politicians.... happy rich ccp.... takes this and times 100 because the population in China is ~1.2 billion.
April 27th, 2006  
Pop-a-squat
 
 
I believe that President Hu's polcies on this matter must absolutely discontinue. Unless the consent is given, it is unethical and immoral to harvest the organs of the dead. Furthermore, it is absolutely wrong to take somebody's life just for the sake of harvesting their organs. In fact, considering some of the circumstances under which these executions are performed (as bulldogg pointed out) , I would even go, and this is my opinion, so far as to call some of these execution areas a form of legislated human organ farms where the taking of human lives are carried out on a daily basis to provide organs for those that are the best off. In effect, humans would be treated very much in a manner not that much unlike the animals we send to the slaughter houses from which we obtain our meats.

Now tell me, considering everything that has been said so far in this thread, would that sit well with you knowing that a government could accuse and convict you to be executed on possibly false charges simply so somebody rich and high up can obtain your heart or any other harvestable organ? Sure wouldn't for me.
April 27th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
What makes this a plausible scenario is that the laws in China are very opaque and their knowledge is closely guarded. Were you to desire to obtain a copy of Chinese law it would set you back 10,000 yuan (about 1200 USD). Consider that the average Chinese person only makes 400 yuan a month and it tells me they have no desire for the common person to actually know the laws of their own country. Much easier to control and manipulate someone who does not know the law.

Second, were you to muster the cash you must apply to the CCP for permission to obtain a copy. I can tell you it is rarely approved. So people are arrested for breaking a law they didn't and couldn't have known about and then sentenced to death with doctors waiting on the firing range to harvest your organs while your family is served the bill for the bullet.

And this is ok with some of you?
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Boots
April 27th, 2006  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
What makes this a plausible scenario is that the laws in China are very opaque and their knowledge is closely guarded. Were you to desire to obtain a copy of Chinese law it would set you back 10,000 yuan (about 1200 USD). Consider that the average Chinese person only makes 400 yuan a month and it tells me they have no desire for the common person to actually know the laws of their own country. Much easier to control and manipulate someone who does not know the law.

Second, were you to muster the cash you must apply to the CCP for permission to obtain a copy. I can tell you it is rarely approved. So people are arrested for breaking a law they didn't and couldn't have known about and then sentenced to death with doctors waiting on the firing range to harvest your organs while your family is served the bill for the bullet.

And this is ok with some of you?
Heh this reminds me of my visit to Vietnam (which is also run by their own cummunist party quite friendly to China's) last year. First country I know where it's illegal to bring a Minidisc player into. They said they had to confiscate it because it wasn't allowed in the country. I asked them why. They said it's against the law. I asked to see a copy of this "law" because, mind you, this was like my 17th visit to the freakin country since 1994. They refused. I asked how I could get it back. They said I'd have to pick it up when I leave the country plus I'd have to pay a "holding and services fee" which amounted to about $80 USD (the average monthly income in Vietnam is roughly $60 USD). Of course this problem was solved by slipping the "customs agent" a $20 bill.... Corruption ......
April 27th, 2006  
Rob Henderson
 
 
I agree with you on the trumped-up charge organ harvesting...but not all prisoners are in jail for criticizing the government, and i realize that the scenarios you all posted could happen, but for those who die in prison, are killed by prisoners, or sentenced to death for a haneous(sp?) crime e.g. rape, murder,can have their organs needed...no offence but china can lose a couple of people considering theyre the most populated country in the world..lol...
April 27th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
So you would agree with the statement that the value of a life decreases as the volume of a population increases?
April 27th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
So you would agree with the statement that the value of a life decreases as the volume of a population increases?
Not in such simplistic terms. But with certain qualifiers: Yes I agree.

Those qualifiers would be:
Under a government that uses it's people for their own gain rather than working for the people.

The morals of that same government being less than on par with world sympathies.

If the culture of the population is centered around death.

If the population far outweighs the ability of the culture to support it wholly. e.g. too many offshoots of the mainstream culture/religion may allow people to dehumanize certain atrocities because they are "Just a xxxxx" or "It was just a bunch of xxxxx", similar to the witchhunts of yesteryear.
April 27th, 2006  
moving0target
 
 
I suppose that the organs of executed prisoners shouldn't be used for transplants for the same reason it illegal (in the US) to sell your organs. When corruption twists what might be a perfectly legitimate system, the most direct result is the loss of potentially innocent life.

...basically what Bulldog and a few others have said already.
April 27th, 2006  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Im just sayin in a country with 100 billion people, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
April 28th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
1.3 billion people.