Poll: 24% of west Germans want Berlin Wall back - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
April 16th, 2005  
loki
 
The problem is, back in the days, things were great (economically) in West Germany. Now, Germany has 5 million people out of work and the national debt is through the roof. And in many cases, the money that is sent to the East isnt used very wisely. I.e. today most cities in the east are nicely restaurated, but they lack inhabitants becauses there is no work and people move to the West.

Also, people in the east speak a terrible dialect and the working habits they have acquired within 40 years of communism dont seem to work so well in a capitalist economy. I dont mean to say they're lazy, it just comes naturally when you work in a command economy. There's a production quota to fulfill, so you work out a plan, and follow it and theres no need to think about improving anything for like the next 4 years. There even was an employment guarantee in the GDR, so that's quite a contast to the working world in the west. (Though Germany is not as capitalistic as the USA, the labour movement is quite strong here, so for example it's nearly impossible for an employer to lay off a long-time employee over 50, etc.)

I still think the reunification was a good thing. But it should have been done differently. It was wrong to immediately apply western standards to all aspects of life in the east, i.e. health care, welfare, working standards, etc.
The GDR sure was in a mess in 1989, but it still was a developed country and one of the 10 biggest economies on its own. I think a slow, steady adaption process could have prohibited the de-industrialization process of the last years.
April 17th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Loki is partially correct giving in a fundemental Micro Economic approach. There have been concerns about Economic Progress in the former East Germany however there are signs of some improvement. Although as a Germany, I don't approve bringing the Berlin Wall back. It would be unreasonable and would only bring seperation and divide among the people.
April 17th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
Also, people in the east speak a terrible dialect
I find this comment bothersome. What does dialect have to do with anything? Seems to me an attitude of division. Of course I am somewhat sensitive to such a statement as I well remember a northern German critcising my grandfather's German dialect because he was from Stuttgart.
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Boots
April 17th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
Maybe it's a communication problem, like how we sometimes can't understand various dialects of our languages. I speak some armenian and can relate to loki, like how different regions in the mideast can speak some very different armenian. You can hardly have a conversation with an armenian from lebanon if you're one from iran. That's the problem i have with a teacher of mine. So i can understand that whole dialect thing, it tends to be a problem for older more specialized languages like german.
April 17th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Having difficulty understanding each other I can understand. I've had difficulty understanding someone from Mississippi for example, but to describe the dialect that's different from your's as "terrible" is divisionary. I would never criticize a person from the southern US for their dialect.
April 17th, 2005  
behemoth79
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge 7
Having difficulty understanding each other I can understand. I've had difficulty understanding someone from Mississippi for example, but to describe the dialect that's different from your's as "terrible" is divisionary. I would never criticize a person from the southern US for their dialect.
you wouldnt criticize soemone from the south and i applaud you for it. however the problem is that there are many out there that consider southerners less sophisticated than northerners. why is that? is it because southerners tend to live a more laid back and enjoyable life than others? thats why they have that "southern drawl" its from years and years of comfortable and relaxed living. in the more urban cities like LA and NY, everyone is trying to shorten the spoken language to be more efiicient. thats the key word in business now. Efficiency. do the most work possible in the least amount of time possible in order to spend less money. because southerners dont tend to emphasize efficiency as muich as northerners, they are often labled as inferior

i think that the biggest problem germany is facing now and korea will face eventually, is the west is expecting the east to catch up to them economically. however, if the west was to lower their expectations a little and meet the east at some middle ground then work together, they can not only reach where the west was, but dramatically improve upon where the west left off.
April 17th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarMachine
Maybe it's a communication problem, like how we sometimes can't understand various dialects of our languages. I speak some armenian and can relate to loki, like how different regions in the mideast can speak some very different armenian. You can hardly have a conversation with an armenian from lebanon if you're one from iran. That's the problem i have with a teacher of mine. So i can understand that whole dialect thing, it tends to be a problem for older more specialized languages like german.
Thats the way I read it as well, it also provides a distinguishing feature which is a problem when you are trying to meld a single state after 40 years of separation.
April 17th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Quote:
however the problem is that there are many out there that consider southerners less sophisticated than northerners.
It's even more divisive than that. I'm a rural northerner. You wouldn't believe how many urban people come here thinking that we're way below their level of sophistication. The attitude is such that when working in NYC some years back, I overheard some co-workers talking about going to Vermont for the weekend and using it as New York's "personal dumping ground" for bad behavior and messing with the natives. I walked up in my well tailored suit and introduced myself at the end of which I said I was from Vermont. You could hear their jaws hitting the floor. I've heard many such comments since but that was one of the more rude ones. Examples are hearing someone from Massachusetts describe a Vermonter as "simple" because he smiled, waved, and wished someone a good day. I hear these things because these people can't believe that somebody who's well dressed and well educated could possibly be a native and not have moved here from somewhere else. Don't get me wrong though. There are plenty of people who come here from urban areas who delight in our oldtime American values and slow pace of living. If it were not so, you wouldn't see quite so many people who retire here.

Exclusionary attitudes are extremely detrimental. Germany will not be going very far until it can overcome such attitudes. America could do well to start divesting itself of them as well if we want to maintain our position in the world. I think you're correct that those in the former West Germany need to be more accepting of those in the former East Germany, likewise, those in the former East Germany need to expect less from those in the former West Germany and show more initiative.
April 17th, 2005  
behemoth79
 
 
EXACTLY!! the two must meet at a middle ground. the west cannot expect the east to rise to their level, and the east cannot expect the west to wait for them to catch up at their at the slow rate they are now.
April 18th, 2005  
loki
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
it also provides a distinguishing feature which is a problem when you are trying to meld a single state after 40 years of separation.
Exactly. Even moreso because dialects arent so pervasive in the west anymore. Most people there speak standard german with some expressions and the accents stemming from a local dialect.