Not for the weak stomach

Glad we cleared that up and accept my apologies for misquoting you. I don't like to dish out what people don't deserve.
Having said that, substance is numero uno. Symbolism is second. But second place doesn't mean it's rubbish either. You pay your taxes, exercise your freedom of speech (and pay for every word you say) and you salute the flag.
Also, a politician, once he becomes the President, is no longer just a politician. That person is an institution. But personally not a big fan of it either way. The flag is the flag of the people and the constitution.
 
13th Redneck

I thank you for the apology. It's Accepted.
I deleted my original post because I misunderstood what Donkey wrote and was unfair.

To the others.

What I was saying was Saluting a flag doesn't not make one a patriot. Its your actions that do. People think that saluting the Flag makes you a Patriot, it doesn't.

Politicians often use symbols of nationalism (like flags) as political smokescreens to steal civil liberties. This happened in the USSR in the 1920s, Germany in the 1930s, and its happening right now in America (if some of you would wake up). This is why I dont give them much creedence.

I couldn't care less if Obama refuses to salute the flag, as long as President he protects the constitution. George Bush on the other hand salutes like a pro, but then goes home and takes a giant S*** on things like the 5th Amendment amongst other of his illegal antics.

I am sorry to say that some of you fail to see the difference.

The point is you can stand at attention and salute the flag for a century and it won't have a single impact on the country. It is meaningless symbol. I am not saying to stop doing it, but understand you are not contributing anything tangible to the nation. As Redneck said, patriotism is primarily about SUBSTANCE, not theatre. Thats what I was trying to say.

If you don't vote, don't pay your taxes, refuse/skip out on Jury Duty, refuse to be drafted into the military, etc. Thats being unpatriotic. Who here didn't vote in 2006? I know some of you didn't because the turnout was only at 40% and then you dare question Obama's patriotism?

Some of you all should look in the mirror.
 
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Well, I personally don't think of Presidents when I hear the word politicians, I think of Congressmen and women. Having said that, I wouldn't be as offended by a President doing so as I would a member of Congress, since the latter are the ones who have to sell their souls to stay in office where the President can be above many of those actions since he doesn't have to worry about his future in politics, only his legacy.
 
Well, I personally don't think of Presidents when I hear the word politicians, I think of Congressmen and women. Having said that, I wouldn't be as offended by a President doing so as I would a member of Congress, since the latter are the ones who have to sell their souls to stay in office where the President can be above many of those actions since he doesn't have to worry about his future in politics, only his legacy.

Yet these people used this process/practice to get elected to the position of President just like Senators, Congressmen etc.
 
To the others.

"What I was saying was Saluting a flag doesn't not make one a patriot. Its your actions that do. People think that saluting the Flag makes you a Patriot, it doesn't.

Politicians often use symbols of nationalism (like flags) as political smokescreens to steal civil liberties. This happened in the USSR in the 1920s, Germany in the 1930s, and its happening right now in America (if some of you would wake up). This is why I dont give them much creedence.

I couldn't care less if Obama refuses to salute the flag, as long as President he protects the constitution. The point is you can stand at attention and salute the flag for a century and it won't have a single impact on the country. It is meaningless symbol. I am not saying to stop doing it, but understand you are not contributing anything tangible to the nation. As Redneck said, patriotism is primarily about SUBSTANCE, not theatre. Thats what I was trying to say.

If you don't vote, don't pay your taxes, refuse/skip out on Jury Duty, refuse to be drafted into the military, etc. Thats being unpatriotic.
Some of you all should look in the mirror".
"

--------------------------------------


OK., MMarsh. Nice post again, understood. But guess what. You and I disagree again.

First - respecting the flag demonstrably IS an ACTION. That alone may not be a man's measure, but sure as eggs are eggs Patriots respect their flag, and their country, and their countrymen , and their traditions, and those who went before building and defending those things. The national flag is a precious treasure, earned in blood by those who were prepared to give their lives for Patiotism.

Therefore it follows that someone who seeks high office but does not demonstrate loyalty to the flag and other symbols , to show how highly they hold their country, is certainly not worthy of that office and should look for votes elsewhere for other jobs - the UN for example.

Similarly, if they hold principles which do not accord with the upholding of such symbols, then that should disqualify them from such candidatecy.

Why should anyone object to their national symbols? As far as their nation is concerned, that is unpatriotic, and should not be rewarded with votes.

Do you consider nationalism a dirty word?


As far as the quoted regimes of Germany and Russia were concerned, I believe they created their own symbols, theatre, etc., made to measure for their mind games, and it does not seem to me that USA fits that bill at all today.


So standing to attention for your flag and anthems is certainly not meaningless, - excepting only, to quote you, to monkeys. And it does indeed make an important contribution - inspiration and encouragement and appreciation of what your country means to you.

As JFK said ..'Ask not what America................'.


So IF Obama doesn't DO national symbols of loyalty and respect, then that would be a warning signal for me, and he would never get my vote for that job. Of course, I realise, as a Brit, that my take is irrelevant in this case.

Right - Help me down off this soap-box please.
 
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you dare question Obama's patriotism?

.

I 'll dare to. You salute the flag out of respect for those who fought, died and bled under those colors. To secure the opportunity for Mr. Obama to run for elected office. To secure the right of the citizen to excercise free speech, the right to freely vote to chose their officals.

And bye the bye I don't believe any person running for office is a patriot anymore. It's all about their agenda not the good of the people. Goes for both parties.

So yeah I will dare to question his patriotism. Because he can't lower himself to render honors to the flag of his country. Not even out of respect for all the hero's who died fighting under it.
 
Well surely, when you put yourself up for election, voters have to question every aspect, and you what you display to the public is your own responsibility. All votes stem from matters of opinion; that's democracy at work. And MMarsh dares to question the patriotism of The President, does he not? So he does not accord The President the same delicacy, does he?

(Sorry guys, there I go butting in again on technicalities.)
 
The salute stems from medieval times. When knights met, they lifted their visors. This demonstrated that you were a friend, not an enemy; that you were not trying to hide your face; that you were not afraid. That you had no weapon in your hand; that you were not threatening.

You were showing respect. Respect to knights, respect to colours, respect to flags.

A meaningless symbol - I don't think so!

All our regiments salute their colours, demonstrating pride of, and loyalty to, the achievements and sacrifices of their soldiers present and past.

If you can't display respect to the flag of your own homeland, what can you respect?

All the accepted symbols have been earned in honour.


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