I need help from you guys !




 
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July 2nd, 2004  
Italian Guy
 
 

Topic: I need help from you guys !


Hi guys, I was telling Mark Conley yesterday that I was getting into a fight with this buddy who is the usual rich girl who 'likes to join the masses by downing the establishment ' ( Mark's diagnosis ).
She accused me of supporting the States, but she said ' oh your President Bush never had the balls to go to Nam and didn't serve, plus remember that its always the same poor fellows who go die in war hoping to get some money for a better future, the head honchos stay home and there's no member of the Congress who has ever had a son or a daughter serving in a war '.I personally have met many members of the armed forces and none of them seemed to me ' a poor fellow who went to war hoping for some money', many of them were educated and all of them believed in the cause.
Since I have this great luck of being here, I would like to ask you guys for some help, so that I cant email her back and tell her the truth.

1)So is there anyone who can tell me whether it is true or not that no member of the Congress has sons or daughters in Iraq ( or previous wars ) or has never had?

2)Has Bush ever served in the military? ( I know theres a thread on this but a quick answer would be welcome. Anyways all I know is : "....Meaning (correct me if I'm wrong) that his unit could have been sent to Iraq, but the government didn't see the need. Bush was sitting in a cockpit ready to go. The government just never sent him. " ( go check Kerry's military background ). What year was that though ?

3)How true is that that it is ' only the poor fellows who enlist in hope for a better future ' ( which I dont believe at all, think of that famous football player for instance, but she would say it's n exception to the rule )
?

I know Americans here will be helpful. It would be great if I could write back to her next monday.
Links would be welcome, specially to the Congress's sons issue.
Mark Conley, RnderSafe, RedNeck, FutureRanger, Eric, DTop, I know you guys can help me.

Thanks y'all.
July 2nd, 2004  
mvilla2426
 
'll give you my opinion ofthe last one.

Based on my own observances, most of the people that enlist are from middling and poor backgrounds. The military can be helpful when you want to go to college, so alot of people enlist for that.

My father enlisted twice. He was from a very poor area, where there were alot of gangs, and he went into the military to get out of that area. That was over 30 years ago....... But he often describes Vietnam as the poor man's war (Though I hear historians say it was the rich man's war) because the guys that were there couldn't afford to go to school, and the guys who COULD afford to go to school often burned their draft cards.
July 2nd, 2004  
Spartan
 
Heres my two cents: Vietnam was a different war, different time. The people who went didn't know why they were going or what they were fighting for. Now, however, we are fighting for a cause. You don't have to believe in it, but every single soldier who enlisted after 9/11 does. They aren't poor men, not all of them. They wanted to make sure that the events that huappend on 9/11 never happen to your friend or her unborn kids. No offence Italian Guy, but she should stop whining and do something that will actually make a dent.
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July 2nd, 2004  
Sooners1
 
 
I am still looking into the claim about Congress and their dependents.

This is what I can find on President Bush:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110956,00.html


As far as people joinin the military for money, some people do join for the chance to go on to college and things like that but for the most part joinin is a matter of pride. As far a money goes, a private in the military can qualify for food stamps, does that sound like they are in it for the money, I dont think so. There are several opportunities for military people but makin a fortune is not one of them.
July 2nd, 2004  
FutureRANGER
 
 
Quote:
and there's no member of the Congress who has ever had a son or a daughter serving in a war
Pooey.

http://web.naplesnews.com/03/04/naples/d930340a.htm

Quote:
Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., keeps a map of Iraq in his kitchen and tries to follow events on television, knowing that any moment could bring catastrophic news.

His son Brooks, 31, is in Iraq, a staff sergeant with the Army's 101st Airborne Division.
Quote:
Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a great personal interest: They have children in the military who already are participating in the war or could be called to do so.
I found some conflicting information, but this seemed to be the most solid.
July 2nd, 2004  
Eric
 
I am sure they are many other who did not just enlist "because poor and desperate"...

"Former Arizona Cardinal Pat Tillman, who gave up millions and a spot on the roster in 2002 to join the Army, was killed in direct action during a skirmish in eastern Afghanistan Thursday, Pentagon sources told ABC News.

At the time of his decision to enlist, Tillman was ridiculed by many for passing up the American dream of fame and fortune while embracing the opportunity to serve his country and quite possibly die. "


http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?s...wire&type=lgns


As far as money goes, I served 18 years, climbed the ladder to Staff college and will have about $800 ret $ at age 52!!!
My first unqualified job here paid more than my last position!!!

As far as Bush goes, he served...no hero...no AWOL...

http://cshink.com/military_record_of_bush.htm

let's talk about Clinton, another long serving president. The wannabees, Al Gorleone and Skerry don't count....because they are wannabees and because when dug, their war records are pretty controversial too...Just remember how fast Gore dropped the subject during his 2000 campaign! Same applies to Kerry!

As far as Congressman go:

Rep. Steven Buyer, R-In, US Army Reserve Officer
Rep. Mark Kirk, R-Il, US Navy Reserve Officer
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, US Air Force Reserve Officer
Rep. Roger Wicker, R-Ms., US Air Force Reserve Officer
Rep. John M. Shimkus, R-Il., US Army Reserve Officer
Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC., US Army S.C. National Guard Officer
+ many veterans from Nam...mostly Democrats!!!
July 2nd, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Not very many "poor," in the true sense of the word, have the ability or even desire to enlist into the US military. From my experiences, it is mostly the middle class. Lower-middle class/middle-middle class .. I would have to guess hold the majority.

If I recall, there are only a handful (perhaps less) children of Congressmen currently or in the recent past serving/have served in the military. However, what does it matter what their children are doing? We have a volunteer military, if they choose not to serve, so be it - it holds no bearing on their father's/mother's political career. I will never understand why people attempt to bring children (yes, even those adult ones) into the fray.

The argument, "if they had children over there, perhaps they would think twice" is getting old, and has always been rather silly.
July 2nd, 2004  
FutureRANGER
 
 
Quote:
The argument, "if they had children over there, perhaps they would think twice" is getting old, and has always been rather silly.
Especially since it's blatantly wrong.

Quote:
For Wilson, three of his sons currently are in the service, though only his oldest son, Alan, would likely be called up.

Wilson, who voted in October for the use of force in Iraq, said he's "bursting with pride" over his sons' service, adding that he expects them to be involved in the ongoing war on terrorism.
http://web.naplesnews.com/03/04/naples/d930340a.htm
July 5th, 2004  
Italian Guy
 
 
Well then thank you so much guys. I'm gonna use all this info to give a good reply to my whining pacifascist friend, tomorrow. And tell you what ( if ) she is able to answer, then.
Any further comments, or help, are highly welcome.
The Veterans part ( how many veterans in Congress ) interest me.
I couldn't have asked for better sources than you are.
July 7th, 2004  
Italian Guy
 
 
Well thanks to all of you, really. I sent her quite of a reply. Oooooh she will... I dont know if she'll ever find the heart to write back after that.
Uhm.. for those who are interested in reading what I wrote just PM me ok ? I'll provide you with a quick translation and yeah you'll be able to have a laughing 5 minutes. It's the least I can do to thank ya'll for help.

What do you call it, in English, when you say something to someone and you totally burn all of his/her assessments? I mean if I say John is taller than I am and we fight over that because you say he's not and I insist in the end you bring John and he's evidently shorter so then you have..... me. What word?