N Korea declares itself a nuclear power - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
February 11th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Well if you're looking at North Korea for equality you've got another think coming. They starve their people to death but their army is well fed and that's just the most glaringly obvious inequality. Of course you'll probably blame that on capitalist sanctions.
February 11th, 2005  
Jim Goose
 
There's no doubt the people are starving to death, even reports of cannibalism have come out of that country I think, and yes sanctions play a role in starving people, look at what it did to Iraq after they invaded Kuwait.

What's the alternative to letting N. Korea progress at its own pace and at Kim's pace? Invasion? Fine, you get yourself another Iraq, likely more famine and insurgency than in Iraq that lasts atleast 5 years, how many die then? And what comes out of it? Will North Korea be insantly prosperous? No, they'll probably be exploited for slave wages and that will be their freedom and liberation. Sure they might be fed, but working for pennies making computer parts for us. Even worse N. Korea doesn't have oil to give...

There's no doubt Kims a bit looney, but he's got a nuke, okay, he's got his toy now, hopefully he'll be content with that for a while and start to feed his people now that he's accomplished that goal. If not, then it's up to the N. Koreans to change their life as bloody as it gets, regime change should occur by the people subjected to its mistreatment not foreign powers. Democratic nations should allow for exiles but shouldn't fund them, they should fund themselves and if they are a popular movement they shouldn't have that big of a problem, especially if they're given asylum in westernized nations.

So long as the South Koreans want America's protection, N. Korea will be harmless.

Economic sanctions do not work. You don't starve Kim, he has palaces bigger than Sadam's. You just starve the people and give Kim more reason to keep N. Korea isolated. Time will tell...
February 11th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Wait wait wait, so Jim, you are saying that it is the people's job for a regime change and not outside powers right?

So by your logic are you saying that it is the Jews' fault for the Holocaust since it was their job to try and make a regime change but since they didn't they deserved to have 8 million of them killed?
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Boots
February 11th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Jim,
Kim Jong-il isn't a loony. He's evil. But he's smart, rather articulate, quick with his wits and surprises people with his sense of humor.
Truth is right now we don't know what to do.
South Korea is pretty divided right now between what to do with the relations with the US, though most people including myself do believe South Korea's good enough to defend against North Korea on its own, America's help, especially in the form of air power would REALLY help our cause.
It's very complicated.
We've made many threads on North Korea so u can go and read them to learn more about the situation. Or else this post along will be 3 pages long.
February 11th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
lol, here' some political comic about the topic:

http://www.politicalcartoons.com/sea...lts.asp?page=3
February 11th, 2005  
Jim Goose
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
Wait wait wait, so Jim, you are saying that it is the people's job for a regime change and not outside powers right?

So by your logic are you saying that it is the Jews' fault for the Holocaust since it was their job to try and make a regime change but since they didn't they deserved to have 8 million of them killed?
Did I say it was the Jews' fault for the holocaust? They were murdered by the support of their own countrymen who were led by a man who was allowed to come to power because of economic stagnation and humiliation following world war 1 and the treaty of versailles. The Jews being murdered in Germany was an internal problem until Germany invaded Poland and did the same with other countries. That's when the allies got involved, not before.

No one really shed tears for the Jews, they all talked about how bad it was to happen but very few stuck out their neck for them, infact many nations refused to let them seek asylum after the war, that's why Israel was formed I believe.

If the Jews consisted of a larger population, maybe they could have standed a chance against the Nazis but they were outnumbered and the Nazis were elected to power and hitler as their leader.

But what would you suggest? The allies should have armed the Jews and socialists to overthrow the publicly elected nazi party? Hindsight is a *****.
February 11th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
this may be off topic but ya : the germans hated the jews because they had money adn power to use it, they controlled the economy and the trades well with efficiency that had created jealousy.

anyhow, here's a page about north korea's nuke capabilities:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/missile/
February 11th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
I say the correct course of action was taken, Germany was defeated in war.

But what would you say? So the only problem was invading other countries. Do you think the holocaust is fine and dandy so long as Germany doesn't invade France?
February 11th, 2005  
Jim Goose
 
No, I don't think any genocide is fine and dandy, but I also don't think its any nations business to invade another nation to try and stop it because when a nation does that, it could get used to the idea of invading countries to "bring freedom" and that is a problem.

There can be political pressure and economic pressure when genocides occur, but I don't believe that violence solves violence honestly. Violence as a means of direct self-defense is understandable though.
February 11th, 2005  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
"There's no doubt the people are starving to death, even reports of cannibalism have come out of that country I think, and yes sanctions play a role in starving people, look at what it did to Iraq after they invaded Kuwait."

And the oil for food program was supposed to hamper the effects on the civilian populous, yet we know what happened to that, don't we?

"What's the alternative to letting N. Korea progress at its own pace and at Kim's pace? Invasion? Fine, you get yourself another Iraq, likely more famine and insurgency than in Iraq that lasts atleast 5 years, how many die then? And what comes out of it? Will North Korea be insantly prosperous? No, they'll probably be exploited for slave wages and that will be their freedom and liberation. Sure they might be fed, but working for pennies making computer parts for us. Even worse N. Korea doesn't have oil to give..."

Nobody mentioned anything about preemptively invading North Korea, that's because most of us already know the outcome. I guess you just presumed us oil stealin' yankee boys would suggest it, but thankfully you've shot down the idea already!

"There's no doubt Kims a bit looney, but he's got a nuke, okay, he's got his toy now, hopefully he'll be content with that for a while and start to feed his people now that he's accomplished that goal."

Yeah hey, maybe deep down in side, Kim is a cuddly bear just acheing to help his people- but hey, you know, he really couldn't help them out, he was too busy arming himself with a nuke to secure the stalinist rule over North Korea for infinity.

This way, if North Korea ever attacked the South again, they wouldn't be invaded should they be pushed back. Not cuddly Kim, though, he'd never try to unite the peninsula under his regime.

Probably wouldn't work, but things that work don't seem to interest NK- why else would they still be useing a failed form of government?

"If not, then it's up to the N. Koreans to change their life as bloody as it gets, regime change should occur by the people subjected to its mistreatment not foreign powers. Democratic nations should allow for exiles but shouldn't fund them, they should fund themselves and if they are a popular movement they shouldn't have that big of a problem, especially if they're given asylum in westernized nations."

This is the most short-sighted idea i've ever heard about the crisis.

Not only do you suggest the North Korean populous should start a rebellion, who are impoverished, nationally brain-washed, and held over an iron grip under a police state (that's putting it lightly)- but you also suggest no state can help to sponser such a rebellion.

Truely unbelievable.

"Economic sanctions do not work. You don't starve Kim, he has palaces bigger than Sadam's. You just starve the people and give Kim more reason to keep N. Korea isolated. Time will tell..."

A prosperous North Korea means a prosperous dictator and military.