I am playing with the tought about the possible scenarios of this worst case scenario. What I ask myselfe when I read the article is why such good referances as Gen. Thomas A Schwartz, the US commander in Korea would lie about all these facts that they behind the article are representing? Why should a four star general lie in a congressional hearing? My point is that the article has many big" ? "You know and the big "?" are not few. I am not a military expert in any way, but a war in North Korea most be played on a whole different level from Afghanistan or Iraq enviroments.

In the swedish army we learn that the terrain is our greatest friend. That was in the 70-90ths, today we are mobile and SF groups will protect swe in the future from an enemy they dont think will come. Well back to topic. I also read in the article that the North Koreans are not only highly motivated to protect there country but they have also in the last 30 years prepared themselfe for just this kind of enemy that the US and south Korea are made of today.

I have no doubt what so ever that a war of this kind really could turn aswell the public opinion and the military in general into a very embarassing position with few or no army at all left in the world. Let`s play with the thought regarding the information- these secret supplies- they are mentioning in the article.

Let´s say that the N.K have these 1.2 million tons of food, 1.46 million tons of fuel, and 1.67 million tons of ammunition that suppose to be stored in underground storage areas for wartime use.

In the 1991 Gulf War U.S took back its former status as a force ready to take down any enemy that shows up on the theater. But when I read this article I get really confused, cause what do we actually know about N.K? Probably even less then we did know about Iraq in 2003 or Afghanistan in 2001. A good example is this hacker battalion that they are talking about in the article.

When U.S forces bombed Yugoslavia and Belgrade there was hackers that interrupted US command in the mediterranien sea so that several bombing missions was interupted. I have seen fotage of downed F-117s that was hit by Strela SAMs and they are very simular to the wha-sung that they are mention, 15.000 of these weapons and they made them themselves aswell.

Well the Iraqis did have alot of weapons but it was alot of import weapons and that makes a big differance when it comes to maintanance and upkeep the weapons in working condition. Another fact that I took in mind was the terrain and with these old AA-guns that proved to be not to effective in opend deserts but they can be very leathal in a djungel.

The ranges are totaly different from a desert war and one more thing that concerns me is if the US military can put in any form of M1A2-M1A1s in the battles on the ground that will be necessary in a much greater scale then in any of these three wars we have seen in this éra? US tankers are the best in the world. But can they still be involved in any operations in the N.K more then in the citys and on well built roads? probably, if there was any.

I have read about commanders in Bosnia that could not move there M1s because they were simply to heavy for the ground. I can see a lot of connections between this article and real life problems on the field to be honest.

Airwar in the desert is easy, if you got the techology but airwar over tree tops in the djungel and with mountains and other obsticals in the way and suppose the N.K got advance equipment for jaming modern fighters well then all the advantages that U.S got in the Gulf War is practically gone.

I know also from the Vietnam war that the VC or the NVA really made damage to american pilots over that battle field and they put up a fight I dont think anyone has done ever in the history of war, more then maby Adolf Hitlers elite unit or the emperor of Japan. I belive that N.K has the worlds most motivated army at the moment to be honest.

They have 30 years indoctrination behind them and I find it very hard to belive that their motivation is low when I read in these article about suicide and resistance to the death. They believe in something and I think they are as ready as they can be.

The big intelligence agencys has proved to have a lot of information but still forces in the gouverment interpret the information a litte bit funny to be honest. Today I have to say that I have more trust for this article then I have for any other thing I have been reading so far on the net or in the news papers on this subject because a lot of it makes sence.

But if there is something more convincing then this article I would gladly look into it because I have been fooled before and all this talk about lack of fuel, bad equipment and so on makes me not to convinced with all respect towards all persons that belive that North Korea would be as easy as Afghanistan or Irak to put down.

These guys are playing in a whole different series of footbal to make this message more understandable. To be honest - It is damn scarry and I do now know why president George W Bush made that statement about forces of evil. Well, I would not put my hand in this wasps' nest for a million bucks with todays weapon or equipment.

Dont get me wrong I dont see N.K as a force of evil but I can understand that the president also got these news on his table and that this concerns him alot. I dont agree with N.K about many things because I like democray and I like this kind of freedom. N.K is "evil" in the sence that I fear them as I do fear the Middle East region, but they are not comparable. It is two different types of fear thats for sure.

In spite of such a massive deployment of intelligence collection assets, the US intelligence on North Korea is faulty at best. Donald Gregg, a former US ambassador to Seoul and a 30-year CIA veteran, has admitted that the US intelligence on North Korea has been the longest lasting story of failure in the annals of US intelligence.

Most Sincerly:
Doc.S

I think in a post-Korean war II situation, we'll really see the aftermaths of the works of evil up in North Korea.

Staff jockies always want to make things look as bad as possible so they get funding. If things are "fine and dandy," the first thing that'll happen is defense budget cuts.
Also in simulations you want to run the worst case scenario. i.e. all the enemy's hardware runs, and it can run for a long time.

I dont know, this smells like a la drang valley november 1965 flashback to me when I read the article and on the same time look at other places on the Internet, TV, News papers and at western analys reports on the N.K strength on paper and assumed information.

They have been right on the Afghanistan, Iraq and probably on the Iran issue about strength on paper. Western N.K analysis I dont give a bottle of horse piss for to be honest in this special subject. People have lied before about wars and equipment of the enemys they are going to face. This one smells like a good reason for a lie to get the wheels rolling.

I would still not be to surprised if you are right the_13th_redneck about the funding and the worst scenario simulations you are mentioning. Infact I belive or should I put it like this.. I really hope that you guys are right on this one.

I think young soldiers are leaving us and their relatives far to soon allready in this middle east conflict in my humble opinion. They are doing a great job and protects not only Iraqi citizens side by side with Iraqi forces and allies but also the west. Who knows where in the world these street terrorists would be otherwise? Soldiers protect many things with their lifes down there without hesitation on there mission or their commander in chef.

I only hope that whoever wins this election in U.S has a really good plan if there is a crisis that could mean U.S forces to the Gulf of Chili or Sea of Japan, because I am more concerned about N.K then I am of a possible operation against Iran where you almost can tell what the Iranian leaders have been eating for lunch by the foodstains on there clothes from sattelites around the globe, while we still dont know what caused a major explosion big as a smaller tactical atomic bomb in the N.K last month.

I hope that South Korea and North Korea (the world leaders) can co exist without repeating the history and experiance another la drang valley scenario in a larger scale or eather worse another Hiroshima, Nagasaki but this time at our own backyards and this time with more players then N.K involved.

Because my humble opinion is.. if one shoot, there will be more countries who follows and they will play along and make up some old scores and that includes countries that are our allies today. This is why I find this South vs North Korea so scarry.

Best Regards:
Doc.S

Just in case you don't know:

China and N.Korea have a mutual defence help pact, if N.Korea is engaged in war, Chinese troops will be in, according to a Chinese article published today, if the war is in a limited scale, China will put in at least 400,000 troops/800 jets/180 navy ships to help N.Korea, if war goes out of hand, then China will put everything in.

I did not know that, Frog. Interesting...

These days there are many articles in Chinese media about China/N.Korea, since over a couple of days it is the 55 years annivesiry of Korea War in which Chinese and N.Koreans fought shouder to shouder like brothers.

South Korea and the USA have a mutual defense pact as well. And of course there is the UN comission which is supposed to bring in additional UN forces if South Korea is attacked. Of course China could veto that now but I don't think that veto will make a difference.
Plus if you bring China into the war, it affects Japan's security so the Japanese Self Defense Force with its advanced weapons will be deploying full strength into the Yellow Sea.
And then Russia might decide to support South Korea because it has important trade links with South Korea. So much business is done that in Busan, some bartenders can speak fluent Russian.
Expect troops from the USA, Canada, UK and Japan to show up.

Why Canada?

Originally Posted by Chocobo_Blitzer

Why Canada?

Canada always shows up when it's a 100% thing. That's why they're in Afghanistan.

Oh I thought they pulled out of Afganistan...

Whoops