mmarsh said:
Rabs
Well thats the $1 Million dollar question. The answer is nobody knows. Its true the Founding Fathers were Christian but I really cannot say if the country was founded on Christian beliefs. If it was then which version of Christianity? Catholic? Protestant, Baptist, Quaker, Unitariarian, etc? If we go down that road not only do we have to figure out if the Founding fathers meant Christian principals, but also which version of Christianity. You talk about your constitutional nightmare!
My feeling is this, is this day and age its probably best to keep the two things completely seperate, even if the Founding Fathers did have Christianity in mind. Remember the Founding Fathers are enlighted as they are; were not always right. You can also say that what went on in 1789 might no longer work in 2005.
Because not acknolwleding any Religon (like most countries) is better for the country as a whole. Otherwise you start mixing Christianity in and somebody who isnt a Christian or disagrees with a specific intrepretation of Christianity is bound to get ticked off. This way at least nobody feels left out as Seperation of Church and State voids the problem completly.
Doody
You are a wiser man than I
BTW, slightly personal question if you dont mind, is that undergrad, grad, phd etc you're doing?
looks like i came upon this thread at an interesting time. one thing that stuck out in the proposals was the issue of gun control. i believe that americans should be able to carry guns for protection. automatic rifles are are for offensive use. they should not be around. but handguns, and hunting rifles are fine with me. i do think they should be registered however. it helps track down suspects in criminal cases. i dont think its too bad to declare that you have a gun.
as for the religious thing, im with Doody. I dont think having, in God we trust, or the ten commandments in public places is a showcase of a government established religion. if someone can explain to me how any of that is an establishment of religion, i would love to know. Even if the government comes out and publicly states that it favors christianity over the rest, it is still not an establishment of religion. does the first amendment not include those who work for the government? are they not allowed to express their views? last time i checked, the president of the united states was still a citizen and protected under the same constitution. so if all of congress comes out and in unison declares, "we are all christian" is that not an expression of their first amendment right to choose their own religion? At no point has any act of the government forced someone to be of a certain religion.
and regarding the whole "times have changed. get with the program" argument:
yes the times have changed. but heres a question for you. have they changed for the better? i think not. before, children were raised.... i was going to continue on but it just hit me that i can stop right there. before, children were raised. the more i look around, the more i see families where children come home from school to frozen leftovers and microwavable soups. they come home to nannies and babysitters. where are the parents? at work. work work work work work. thats all we do nowadays. why, because things we have become so materialistic that the only way we can get by and survive with our 90 inch plasma screens and expensive sports cars that we cant possible live without is to have both "parents" work all day. I put parents in quotes because i wonder why they are called "parents" when they no longer raise their children. I look back at the 1950s many times and wonder what really happened to change all that. The idea of "family" has deteriorated.
continuing with the changing or times, why have the roles of good and evil changed? why are police officers considered the bad guys? why is it that children root for the gangs, the burglers, the criminals, instead of the police and the law. i know why. because of the idea of, "if it feels good, do it." this idea ties in to the religious argument. the idea of "do what you want" and "you are your own god," instead of "thats not the right thing to do," or the golden rule. "do to others what you would have them do to you." remember the golden rule people? i bet you had forgotten it. our society today doesnt want you to remember it. it wants you to be jealous, to hate, to despise, to want what others have. IT WANTS YOU TO DROWN IN YOUR OWN POOL OF HATE.
regarding the issue of the death penalty. why are we even discussing it? the problem here isnt whether the death penalty is good or bad, its "Why are people killing other people?" Can you really hate someone so much as to end their life? can you really have that black of a heart? with parents who raise you properly, you cant. if your parents show you nothing but love, how can you hate? you cant.
Now lets say we introduce morality into law. why not make a law preventing both parents from working full time jobs? one must stay home and raise the child to be a good, law-abiding, citizen when he/she grows up. with constant parental care and show of love and support, would that not all but elimate gangs? would that not end murder? rape? hate? I would like to think it would. but no, lets sacrafice our children and the future of our world so we can have that 8 bedroom mansion, 5 cars, and that yacht.
if you havnt caught the subliminal point ive been trying to make, here it is in black and white.
Basic religious fundamentals will strengthen our society, our country, and our world. So lets go back to the times when people actually cared about eachother, and not this hell we call our society.
Now i know i got a bit carried away here, but let me ask you something. Have i forced any religion on you? have i infringed on your right to chose a religion? If you think i have, then i am sorry, not for my words, but i am sorry that, that you are so.... for lack of better word, stupid.
Yeah, I do I guess. :lol:
