Live fire contoversy...

Ofcourse you will have to have livefires as preperations for going to war.

The real question is, where the soldiers in the exercise trained well enough?
 
the persons involved were special forces commandos preparing for their second tour of duty in Afghanistan i think the answer is yes they were well trained....
 
Ok, I didn´t see that in the article.

So have the Commandoes done alot of MOUT missions in The Stan up to this point?
I see in the article they were doing confined spaces exercises.
If all involved do it right this sort of thing shouldn´t happen.
One of two things happened.
Either someone f**ked up, or Muphys law played a part.

At any rate.
"Ultimately it is the use of live ammunition in these scenarios which gives them the confidence to know that they can react in Afghanistan on first contact with the enemy," he said, adding it was a "very essential" part of training."

I agree.
 
A bit of a difference between a live fire exercise and just basic marksmanship training. Heck, Boy Scouts run rifle ranges and don't seem to be killing themselves off at an alarming rate.

Granted, we have some absolutely first class simulators but you do have to actually shoot your weapons at some point.

And live fire exercises will always be dangerous to some degree. A tank toasted two of my Bradleys in Germany during a night live fire exercise once. That was messy. To the credit of the tank crew, they did fire three rounds and got three hits.
 
I work around things such as these and have never seen anyone shot. When it comes to livefire training you always start at a crawl, move to a walk and then you run.
 
CQB scenerios are necessary especially for operators so you can't drop them from training and expect your operators to be battle ready.

Given the wounds I Can think of at least one scenerio that would explain it but I'm not going to speculate.
 
Lavite said:
A bit of a difference between a live fire exercise and just basic marksmanship training. Heck, Boy Scouts run rifle ranges and don't seem to be killing themselves off at an alarming rate.

Granted, we have some absolutely first class simulators but you do have to actually shoot your weapons at some point.

And live fire exercises will always be dangerous to some degree. A tank toasted two of my Bradleys in Germany during a night live fire exercise once. That was messy. To the credit of the tank crew, they did fire three rounds and got three hits.
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if this thing was to get enough political will behind it typical of Australian politics they will ban all forms of live fire which would be completely ridiculous...
dam over reactive politicians trying to save the world by ruining it...
 
Not just your politicians mate.
All politicians are alike in that.

They were looking to shut livefires down over here to after that Dane got shot during dynamic entry exercises.
Although atleast in that case someone stepped over his line.

//KJ.
 
Speaking of live fire exercises, it reminded me of an incident with the French Army a year or two ago. They were putting on a demonstration for a happy crowd of civilian on lookers with blank ammunition.

They'd already done it without a glitch several times. On the last try, some how one of the soldiers loaded a magazine of live ammunition. He ended up spraying the crowd.

I think the French equivalent of the Secretary of the Army had to resign as a result.
 
captiva303 said:
the persons involved were special forces commandos preparing for their second tour of duty in Afghanistan i think the answer is yes they were well trained....
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Third tour, and they would have been proficient in CQB drills etc, it is there job.

RIP Digger
 
I work around things such as these and have never seen anyone shot. When it comes to livefire training you always start at a crawl, move to a walk and then you run.
Click to expand...

Do your SOF crawl?
 
SigJohnson said:
Third tour, and they would have been proficient in CQB drills etc, it is there job.

RIP Digger
Click to expand...

Don't doubt it at all. But kill houses are unforgiving it only takes one misstep or one bobble when your going full speed for s#it to go wonky.

Wouldn't say anyone is questioning their proficency or skill. I for one I'm sure that this was an anomoly and an unforunate incident. No reason to cut live fire, that would counter productive to their mission.
 
Wallabies said:
I think every military for thousands of years has been doing dry runs.
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Then what exactly is your question?

Let me break it down for you.

Crawl = Going over what is expected outside the shoot house using mock up villages, glass houses and classroom.

Walk = Going on a dry run in the shoot house exactly like you would with live rounds.

Run = Doing the deed with live rounds.
 
Really Man.

Pretty sure that this unit given that they are SOF did the whole walk thru, quarter speed, Half speed, Full speed thing. They weren't I'd like to think a buncha cherries.

It happens regardless of the level you are at. Some cuts wrong. Someone crosses out of their sector. Someone mis-counts. Someone stumbles. It's thae nature of the beast.
 
03USMC said:
Really Man.

Pretty sure that this unit given that they are SOF did the whole walk thru, quarter speed, Half speed, Full speed thing. They weren't I'd like to think a buncha cherries.

It happens regardless of the level you are at. Some cuts wrong. Someone crosses out of their sector. Someone mis-counts. Someone stumbles. It's thae nature of the beast.
Click to expand...

If this comment was directed at me I was not bashing these troops, they are world class soldiers. I am explaining how the process works to people who have never done it or don't understand it.
 
Understood. But the how and why are unknown since the defense ministry of Oz isn't releasing it. So I'd say it's safe to assume that the unit in question was trained.

I also believe that Wally is currently serving as a grunt in the Aussie Army and probably has a working knowledge of CQB.
 
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