John Kerry

Actually he's not that far off but he left out a major point.

Even if you DO work hard and study you can STILL wind up in Iraq. How many people do you know joined the service not because they were lazy but because they couldn't afford college? When I was in college several of my best friends had just returned from the Gulf War and it was the Army/Air Force (no Marines, sorry...:p) that was paying the tuition.

We saw the same thing in Vietnam, those who could afford college got deferments, those who couldnt got drafted. (Yes, there were exceptions).

What Kerry missed is that it isnt a matter of if you work hard or not, its how much green you got.

How many sons of Billionaires, do you see in the Service?
 
Actually Kerry totally missed every major point in question.

#1. All volunteer military.
#2. If you are in the military reserve/guard, you took an oath.
#3. If you are a patriot and feel the GWOT/Iraq conflict is justified you and you join the military there is a high probablitliy that you will be in Iraq at one time or another.

Right now my sons can go to HS and then go to college if they choose, if they do not choose college they can go into the workforce and earn a living. They do not have to go into the military and there is no immediate plans to reinstitute the draft.

Kerry is an idiot!

mmarsh said:
Actually he's not that far off but he left out a major point.

Even if you DO work hard and study you can STILL wind up in Iraq. How many people do you know joined the service not because they were lazy but because they couldn't afford college? When I was in college several of my best friends had just returned from the Gulf War and it was the Army/Air Force (no Marines, sorry...:p) that was paying the tuition.

We saw the same thing in Vietnam, those who could afford college got deferments, those who couldnt got drafted. (Yes, there were exceptions).

What Kerry missed is that it isnt a matter of if you work hard or not, its how much green you got.

How many sons of Billionaires, do you see in the Service?
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Words are essentially meaningless without context......so I'd like to see the context of this before I pass judgement.
 
WNxRogue said:
Words are essentially meaningless without context......so I'd like to see the context of this before I pass judgement.
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I think the words are pretty clear. You might mean that you want to see what the context was before the severity of the sentencing.

I think Kerry's presidential nomination flown south.
 
Senior Chief said:
Actually Kerry totally missed every major point in question.

#1. All volunteer military.

Well in both my friends cases it was the choice spend the rest of their lives flipping burgers in poor neighborhoods, or joining the military and going to college after (if you survive). That doesnt seem like much of a choice. Its espically unfair when its ALWAYS the poor that always have to make the choice. We dont have a volenteer army, we have a how-to-get-out-of-poverty-army. I think thats neither in the American interest nor in the military's. The British Army is a true volenteer army and its a far more equitable system, you can find people from all economic classes in the British Army.

#2. If you are in the military reserve/guard, you took an oath.

I agree, but refer to #1. Its not fair that the poor always get stuck with the choice.

#3. If you are a patriot and feel the GWOT/Iraq conflict is justified you and you join the military there is a high probablitliy that you will be in Iraq at one time or another.

Scratch the first part, because the military dont give a damn what you feel. If you join, chances are you are going to Iraq whether you want to or not. I have no problem with this, I just wish that poor people had other options than the military. Theres a difference between those how want to join and those that HAD to join, because there was no other option.
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mmarsh said:
Senior Chief said:
Actually Kerry totally missed every major point in question.

#1. All volunteer military.

Well in both my friends cases it was the choice spend the rest of their lives flipping burgers in poor neighborhoods, or joining the military and going to college after (if you survive). That doesnt seem like much of a choice. Its espically unfair when its ALWAYS the poor that always have to make the choice. We dont have a volenteer army, we have a how-to-get-out-of-poverty-army. I think thats neither in the American interest nor in the military's. The British Army is a true volenteer army and its a far more equitable system, you can find people from all economic classes in the British Army.

#2. If you are in the military reserve/guard, you took an oath.

I agree, but refer to #1. Its not fair that the poor always get stuck with the choice.

#3. If you are a patriot and feel the GWOT/Iraq conflict is justified you and you join the military there is a high probablitliy that you will be in Iraq at one time or another.

Scratch the first part, because the military dont give a damn what you feel. If you join, chances are you are going to Iraq whether you want to or not. I have no problem with this, I just wish that poor people had other options than the military. Theres a difference between those how want to join and those that HAD to join, because there was no other option.
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The total argument you have is unfounded. First, your friends chose to go to the military rather than to go to college. Before you say they didn't have the money to go to college, neither did I, but I found a way to raise the money to go. I was flipping burgers when I started and I continued by washing dishes at a hospital. I didn't finish college when I was young because I was given a draft notice. The guys that choose the military aren't necessarily poor, and you are in error by saying that only the poor join the military. I know many people that worked their way through college and then joined, with a commissison. They bettered their life and then went into the military. Your perception of the military only taking the poor is absurd.

If you ARE poor, and you join the military today you have no excuse but to expect to be engaged in war. Common sense tells you that a nation at war uses their military personnel in war conditions.

On the other hand, you probably have inside information that tells you that the Army/Navy/Airforce/Marines/Coast Guard all screen their enlistees and make sure they fall below the hypothetical poverty line before they can be inducted.

The late Pat Tillman, was far from poor. The people I know that are in the reserve are far from poor. There are young people in the resrfve that are not wealthy, but they are working and serving their country on weekends for extra money all the while taking classes at the local colleges and universities.

Another thing you have missed is the fact that many of the young people that are inducted are those that are recruited right out of high school. It's a choice they make freely, not one that is forced on them because they are poor. And just in case you are interested, many of them come from families that are not toeing the poverty line.

Like I said, your perception is pretty skewed as well as screwed up.
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Team Infidel said:
And just think.... he was almost the president..... what a looooooooooser
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What I fear is that the main stream media will try to make a hero out of him (again) so that he can run for president. I think what is worse is the WWE (Wicked Witch of the East) may have a shot at the office. When WWE's young daughter was to ride away from an event in DC she was slated to ride in a car with a military general officer, she refused saying that her family doesn't like the military. A child doesn't come up with something like that on her own, it's a family affair. Can you imagine what might happen to the U.S. military should she be elected?
 
He's a disgraceful idiot. I can't believe he said those things about US troops and he was running for president? OMG....
 
Senior Chief said:
What I fear is that the main stream media will try to make a hero out of him (again) so that he can run for president. I think what is worse is the WWE (Wicked Witch of the East) may have a shot at the office. When WWE's young daughter was to ride away from an event in DC she was slated to ride in a car with a military general officer, she refused saying that her family doesn't like the military. A child doesn't come up with something like that on her own, it's a family affair. Can you imagine what might happen to the U.S. military should she be elected?
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Does that make Barbara Boxer the W W of the West? :smile:
 
Kerry is most definitely pandering and the outrage most vets are showing him should come as no surprise.

As for joining the military, it is voluntary and it is not only poor people. I am giving up a very comfortable lifestyle and salary here to do it. My brother is going to join the Marines at 33 walking away from his own company that is VERY successful. We are the only sons of a man who just lost his only daughter and our father is 110% supportive of our decisions and proud. He knows and we know we will be going to Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere else our commanders deem necessary. You will not hear one iota of bellyaching from me, my brother or my father no matter what happens, who makes the decision or why any of it goes down. Its called personal responsibility and its not just a friggin phrase to my family. We love our country and don't feel right sitting on the sidelines letting someone else foot the bill for our rights and privileges even if it means relinquishing those so that others may enjoy them.

Kerry's statements are ignorant and insulting to me and others like me. :cen: him, pissing on the military to grovel for votes. He and his kiind make me ill.
 
I have heard Democrats saying that this attempt at humor was taken out of context and it was meant as a comment on the Bush administration's conduct on the war. I have also heard the actual comments and Republicans saying that it was a criticism of the people serving in Iraq. Neither of these sides of the discussion can tell me what was in John Kerry's heart at the time and I could have just attributed it all to political posturing during an election year.
However, when an apology was demanded of him, Sen. Kerry responded by refusing to apologize even for a misunderstanding while demanding that the White House apologize. That reaction spoke volumes to me. As Sen. John McCain said ""I've found that if it is just a botched joke then apologize and move on." and "As it stands, he owes an apology to the men and women who are serving in Iraq out of patriotism and love of country, not because of any academic deficiencies,".
I think this will only serve to bring more Republican voters out on election day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061101/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_kerry
 
DTop said:
I have heard Democrats saying that this attempt at humor was taken out of context and it was meant as a comment on the Bush administration's conduct on the war. I have also heard the actual comments and Republicans saying that it was a criticism of the people serving in Iraq. Neither of these sides of the discussion can tell me what was in John Kerry's heart at the time and I could have just attributed it all to political posturing during an election year.
However, when an apology was demanded of him, Sen. Kerry responded by refusing to apologize even for a misunderstanding while demanding that the White House apologize. That reaction spoke volumes to me. As Sen. John McCain said ""I've found that if it is just a botched joke then apologize and move on." and "As it stands, he owes an apology to the men and women who are serving in Iraq out of patriotism and love of country, not because of any academic deficiencies,".
I think this will only serve to bring more Republican voters out on election day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061101/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_kerry
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I have no doubt about the intent of Kerry with the comment. I have always found him reprehensible from the day I returned from Vietnam and was accosted by protestors that said even our own officers were against us.

What I find most disturbing about a "public servant" is his unrepentant attitude.
 
I never liked Kerry, in 2004 I thought he was the weakest of all the Democratic Candidates. He ran one of the worst Campaigns in recent memory which resulted in us getting stuck with Bush for another 4 years, a race anybody else should have easily won. It was moronic statements such as this that cost him the election.

I agree with DTOP that it was no joke, rather it was something he said that got twisted around in his mouth so it came out very different. Being that Kerry was a soldier himself, I seriously doubt he meant to say that all soldiers are dumb (if he did, then what does that say about him?).

Basically its a non issue, Kerry should apologize, reprhase what he meant to say, and move on. This wouldn't even be a story if there wasnt an election next week.

I'll disagree with DTop on whether this effects the elections. By now most people have made up their minds. I doubt it will drive to many people to vote GOP. Stupid comments by a single senator will not wash away peoples memory of years of stupidity, nastiness, corruption, and incompetance.

In fact if I were the GOP I would drop the issue, they scored their political points, now drop it before people realize that your simply pandering for votes before an election and the whole episode backfires.
 
mmarsh said:
I never liked Kerry, in 2004 I thought he was the weakest of all the Democratic Candidates. He ran one of the worst Campaigns in recent memory which resulted in us getting stuck with Bush for another 4 years, a race anybody else should have easily won. It was moronic statements such as this that cost him the election.

I agree with DTOP that it was no joke, rather it was something he said that got twisted around in his mouth so it came out very different. Being that Kerry was a soldier himself, I seriously doubt he meant to say that all soldiers are dumb (if he did, then what does that say about him?).

Basically its a non issue, Kerry should apologize, reprhase what he meant to say, and move on. This wouldn't even be a story if there wasnt an election next week.

I'll disagree with DTop on whether this effects the elections. By now most people have made up their minds. I doubt it will drive to many people to vote GOP. Stupid comments by a single senator will not wash away peoples memory of years of stupidity, nastiness, corruption, and incompetance.

In fact if I were the GOP I would drop the issue, they scored their political points, now drop it before people realize that your simply pandering for votes before an election and the whole episode backfires.
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If kerry was some jerkwater democrat it wouldn't be news now. As it is he is one of the most powerful democrats around and the republicans are willing to exploit his hatred to their benefit. I see no problem with doing that. After all, the democrats lie cheat and steal as much as any political entity in the country, they need to be called into check when possible.
 
I think he just stuck his foot in his mouth. It just happens that he did it at the wrong time, a time when our Men and Women in the services are needing the support of their Country the most. It's his stubborn refusal to apologize that is hurting the Democratic party now. Most Democrat leaders like Pelosi and Murtha are in hiding and taking no invitations for interviews. The Democratic candidates who are in election races now are asking him not to come to speak for them in the race.

The biggest problem for the Dems is that President Bush is always skewered when he fumbles for a word or mispronounces one and is called dumb. What goes around comes around, both parties should realize that mud slinging will get both the thrower and target dirty.
 
Missileer said:
I think he just stuck his foot in his mouth. It just happens that he did it at the wrong time, a time when our Men and Women in the services are needing the support of their Country the most. It's his stubborn refusal to apologize that is hurting the Democratic party now. Most Democrat leaders like Pelosi and Murtha are in hiding and taking no invitations for interviews. The Democratic candidates who are in election races now are asking him not to come to speak for them in the race.

The biggest problem for the Dems is that President Bush is always skewered when he fumbles for a word or mispronounces one and is called dumb. What goes around comes around, both parties should realize that mud slinging will get both the thrower and target dirty.
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I have to agree with your post.

Maybe we should put a microphone in front of Kerry more often in the next few days!
 
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