Jerry Falwell Dead




 
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Jerry Falwell Dead
 
May 15th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 

Topic: Jerry Falwell Dead


Jerry Falwell Dead
CNN is reporting that Jerry Falwell has died at age 73.


http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15...ell/index.html


I dislike to speak ill of the recently deceased, but I have got no respect for people that preach hatred. So to blazes with Jerry Falwell...

1. This is a man who was an outspoken supporter of Apartheid. Referred to Nobel prize winner Desmond Tutu as a phony.

2. Was an outspoken segregationist referring to Civil Rights Act as "Civil Wrongs Act".

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God’s word and had desired to do the Lord’s will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made…. The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line.”
-Jerry Falwell 1958

3. Blamed Lesbians and Liberals for 9-11.

4. Described to the anti-Christ as a Jewish man.

5. Notorious Homophobe.

A nasty, racist, anti-semitic, homophobic, Far-right Christian-Taliban Radical.

Good Riddance.
May 16th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
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May 16th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Well, looking on the bright side of such a sad day for the "Right" in America...... it does give Strom Thurmond someone to roast marshmallows with.
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Jerry Falwell Dead
May 16th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Ok, so you wanna go there, sobeit... I may not have agreed with everything he did but he stood up for those things he believed in, something most people don't do. So good on him for having the courage of his convictions even if I thought he was nuts.

And as far as his racist comments, people change. My grandpa was a bigot and got his tit in a wringer during WWII for telling a black E-7, " you n____r." But he changed, by the time I married my first wife he welcomed her with open arms and our daughter too.

Are you without sin? Have your beliefs never changed?

And on top of all this, he is dead. Railing against the actions of a deadman are the height of impotency.
May 16th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
[quote=bulldogg;314225]Ok, so you wanna go there, sobeit... I may not have agreed with everything he did but he stood up for those things he believed in, something most people don't do. So good on him for having the courage of his convictions even if I thought he was nuts.

And as far as his racist comments, people change. My grandpa was a bigot and got his tit in a wringer during WWII for telling a black E-7, " you n____r." But he changed, by the time I married my first wife he welcomed her with open arms and our daughter too.

Are you without sin? Have your beliefs never changed?


Adolf Hitler believed in his convictions too, especially when he was gassing 6 million Jews, do you admire that too? Or maybe Stalin, when he sent 20 Million people to the Gulag. I'm sure Adolf and 'Uncle Joe' was absolutly convinced they were doing the right thing. Personally I would have preferred that they and Falwell been less honest to themselves, and become better human beings because of it. A monster with convictions is still a monster.

Secondly, only SOME people change. Some never do. Some people remain racists their entire life. Falwell comments about his admiration of Apartheid was only 20 years ago, not 50. And like so many on the right, he never apologized for his racism views either. He merely realized the segregationist platform was a lost cause and changed the subject. Thats hardly a change of heart. If Jim Crow ever made a return you can be sure he would be right there supporting it. A Leopard doesn't change it spots.

All Falwell did was to trade his Klansman robes for those of the pulpit, and in doing so sullied the good name of Christians everywhere. Falwell built his entire ministry on hate (blacks, Jews, Homosexuals, Leftists, Mormons, and various others who didn't agree with him). Hate is one of the 7 Deadly Sins (by contrast, homosexuality isn't). Thats the hypocrisy of all these 'moralists'. Gator is right, he'll be judged on that.

Maybe you find his 'convictions' admirable, I find it despicable.
May 16th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 

Topic: Class is in session


Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Ok, so you wanna go there, sobeit... I may not have agreed with everything he did but he stood up for those things he believed in, something most people don't do. So good on him for having the courage of his convictions even if I thought he was nuts.

And as far as his racist comments, people change. My grandpa was a bigot and got his tit in a wringer during WWII for telling a black E-7, " you n____r." But he changed, by the time I married my first wife he welcomed her with open arms and our daughter too.

Are you without sin? Have your beliefs never changed?

And on top of all this, he is dead. Railing against the actions of a deadman are the height of impotency.
Highlighted since you seem to have missed a key point.

Further to your comments I would offer this...
The logical fallacy of argumentum ad hitlorum is a sure sign your opponent has no argument at all. Cheers.

FYI... hate is NOT one of the seven deadly sins... for your personal edification they are in fact; pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony and sloth.
http://www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/
May 16th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
As usual, you totally missed the point.

I never said you agreed with Falwell. Nowhere did I accuse of that. I'll highlight the points so you can understand.

What I said was: An evil man even with the courage of his convictions isn't to be commended when those same convictions are used in EVIL AND IMMORAL ACTIONS (like preaching hatred).

Its like commending the 9-11 terrorists for being good muslims. Only extremists think that way.

Umm, To Hate is to be totally consumed by wrath. Therefore since Wrath is a sin, automatically so is hate. Hate cannot exist without anger.

Racism's root is Fear. Fear becomes Anger, Anger becomes Hatred. All links on the same chain.

I would offer this in reply to you: One cannot be effective in expressing his/her argument when the person is incapable of listening.

Class is now over.
May 16th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Evil is a highly subjective word. To some people the ideals of western society are "evil" and to others those espoused by islam are "evil" but I digress. Jerry Falwell did not kill 6 million jews... Jerry Falwell did not kill 20 million soviets... comparing Falwell to Hitler and Stalin is a classic logical fallacy, Argumentum ad hitlorum and saying that the deceased was a former Klansman is commiting the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam because you have no proof of this claim, the hyperbole of the leopord and his spots is again a logical fallacy, composition fallacy because beliefs and knowledge are able to change unlike the phenotype of the leopard species.
May 16th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
As usual, you totally missed the point.

I never said you agreed with Falwell. Nowhere did I accuse of that. I'll highlight the points so you can understand.

What I said was: An evil man even with the courage of his convictions isn't to be commended when those same convictions are used in EVIL AND IMMORAL ACTIONS (like preaching hatred).

Its like commending the 9-11 terrorists for being good muslims. Only extremists think that way.

Umm, To Hate is to be totally consumed by wrath. Therefore since Wrath is a sin, automatically so is hate. Hate cannot exist without anger.

Racism's root is Fear. Fear becomes Anger, Anger becomes Hatred. All links on the same chain.

I would offer this in reply to you: One cannot be effective in expressing his/her argument when the person is incapable of listening.

Class is now over.
Editing after a response is bad form, so you force me to double post to quote you and hold you to your responses.

Hate does not require anger, in fact hate without anger is to be feared most I would argue because it grows from logic rather than emotion.

"Evil" and "immoral"... again subjective. Morallity is NOT universal. Ethics are as they apply to the accepted conventions of action in a given profession or field of study but morals are confined to cultures. What is moral in the US is not what is moral in India and it goes even more detailed as the morals of one region within a country vary from those of another within the same country. What you're doing right now is called cultural imperialism, you are imposing the values and morals of your belief system upon those external to the society from which those beliefs and moral judgments were arrived at by the members of that group.
May 16th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
[quote=bulldogg;314282]Evil is a highly subjective word. To some people the ideals of western society are "evil" and to others those espoused by islam are "evil" but I digress.

Only to extremists on both sides, not rational people.

Jerry Falwell did not kill 6 million jews... Jerry Falwell did not kill 20 million soviets... comparing Falwell to Hitler and Stalin is a classic logical fallacy,

Birds of a feather flock together. Had Falwell been in a position of power to act on his beliefs, I think he might have. Absolute power corrupts absolutly. History is full of Religious radicals persecuting those they deem as heathen.

Argumentum ad hitlorum and saying that the deceased was a former Klansman is commiting the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam because you have no proof of this claim,

FYI, Early in his career, Falwell did actually defend Klan views, but He disagreed with them on the use of violence. I didn't say he was a member (though he might have been). I said he acted like one. Specifically that he pushed an agenda of the segregation through the pulpit while Klan pushed the same message via violence. The means to the end were different between the Klan and Falwell but the goal was the same.

the hyperbole of the leopord and his spots is again a logical fallacy, composition fallacy because beliefs and knowledge are able to change unlike the phenotype of the leopard species.

Again, only sometimes. Not always. Some people change their views some stick stubbornly by them. My grandmother was a southerner who always thought Jews or Afro-Americans were inferior to whites. She wasnt a racist, never referred to blacks as the "N" Word or opposed Civil Rights. But still thought them inferior. She was a product of her time. On her deathbed at 94 she was still referring to the Afro-American nurse as a "good girl". It made my father and I cringe...
 


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