IRAN, IRAK and the US position. - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
February 16th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
"Maybe I will be like the tornado"

Yeah a mass of swirling air sounds about right.
February 16th, 2005  
DTop
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE IRANIAN
... ya really think that you sent your guys in Irak to solve democracy problems? Try to explain me why you did not attack China then? Do you really think that your army would have attacked Irak if the USA were not expecting to obtain something there?

Ya know, I have the chance to speak 4 languages and that permits me to compare the news on diffrent satellite TVs.

I'm really out of laugghs sometimes when I hear about Al Qaeda relations with Saddam or Iran...

Al Qaeda is composed with Wahabit muslims, very close to some Saudi Arabia's sheikhs, ennemies of Saddam. And all those people are sunni muslims ennemies of Iran's chiia muslims. But that seems to be forgotten by many american TV channels. Only some rare films like Fahrenheit 911 have tried to expose you the truth... but are you ready to open your eyes?
It makes no difference how many languages you claim to speak, you still must respect others' opinions on this forum. Read the rules, country bashing is NOT allowed here. One more thing, report to the Welcoming center immediately and post an introduction.

Consider that a second warning about following the rules.
February 16th, 2005  
CO5060.20
 
Admin edit: Removed. English only in here please!
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Boots
February 16th, 2005  
THE IRANIAN
 
Your very very educated brains. That's exactly what I'm speaking about. You are not the only country to have Nobel Price scientists and Einstein was not American as far as I know.
You want a paradox? A certain Ali Javan invented the gaz-lazer ... and he was Iranian. Like him, many scientists got to the USA, because of the "American dream", but I can't imagine what would be America without them all.

The problem is that in the USA, everythin you do is controlled by organisms like the CIA, and your president would never take one decision without the Pentagon agreement. You're right guys, it's not Bush who sent your youths there, it's Rumsfeld.

And it's the same CIA who possesses 60% of the TVs advertisment industry in the USA. So, of course you got the best army, and no one would say the contrary men, and of course your best brains are working for USA to stay the NUMBER 1. But who gives you the right to attck this or that country? In the name of God ? Or maybe more simply in the name of America's Economy?
February 16th, 2005  
WorldWatcher
 
 
[quote="THE IRANIAN"]Your very very educated brains. That's exactly what I'm speaking about. You are not the only country to have Nobel Price scientists and Einstein was not American as far as I know.
You want a paradox? A certain Ali Javan invented the gaz-lazer ... and he was Iranian. Like him, many scientists got to the USA, because of the "American dream", but I can't imagine what would be America without them all.

Well that fact is that the USA was built on immigration, everyone here is an immigrant in their history,save for the Native Americans.I think that is one of the US's strongest quality though,diversity,and with it diverse ideas on culture and technologies.
February 16th, 2005  
THE IRANIAN
 
Moderators: I'm not trying to bash any country. I'm not against the USA. I'm against USA actual foreign policy. I'm somehow against Mr Bush decisions and his foolish ideas. Someone spoke about generalization here? What when your president speaks about "the evil axe" or "the big middle-east project" ...

maybe you cannot here different opinions from those you are used to listen. I came here by my own. I thought that maybe it would be useful.

Cxxxx: I have nothing against you guy, and I'm not wainting for your respect. Respect 3rd world people, and that will be enough for me, and God will bless you.
February 16th, 2005  
CO5060.20
 
Friend, I do not believe that the things you say are correct. It may be my lack of paranoia or my 20-20 vision, but I saw n o facts supporting your claims.l Your use of inductive reasoning (citing specific cases rather then facts) may work well for those less educated or logic oriented, but not for facts conditioned members of society. You make these claims yet give no proof. I respect your opinion and I want to understand what you are saying, but you have no shown yourself to be very reliable. Give some kind of proof that the CIA controls 60%, heck lets make it 10% of what goes on the T.V., and I will begin to see it your way. Please, I ask that you act mature (i.e. no smart-ass comments or tough guy left-wing comentary), as I will do my best to remain neutral until proven one way or the other. I am a devout Christian, but I will not let that interfere with my proofs as I will give facts as well. You wanted intelligent answers, I will do my best, as should the rest of the members on this forum. Thanks for your time brother.
February 16th, 2005  
THE IRANIAN
 
Okay. one by one then.

So, I will start with Iran's case as it seems to be THE actual America's problem and that I have some good reasons to speak about this country.

Brief History (tell me if I forget something broth):

1935: After the loss of regions like Irak, Afghanistan, Pakistan... because of English pressure, the last part of the Persia Empire becomes offcially IRAN (which litterrally means "the country of the Arians" ---> Iranians have european origins).

An army general, Reza Chah Pahlavi, supported by the USA and England, proclames himself Imperator or "Shah". He is a dictator, but he loves Iran and modernizes the country.

After the 2nd World War, Iran becomes the 1rst American ally in the Middle East, and the only country not to be communist.

After his death, his son becomes Shah. He is very close to President Carter and he forgets that his country is not France, nor America.
He makes 3 big mistakes:
- He introduces the mechanization in the Iranian Agriculture, without concertation. Thousands of people loose their jobs and become communists.
- He forbidds the hidding of hair for women.... in a muslim country!
- Fearing the communist evolution, he diminishes the number of universities.

1956: Riots make the Shah escape to the USA.

Mossadegh installs a democracy, based on the french model.

The first law adopted by the regime is the oil nationalization. Soon Egypt and Irak do the same. The OPEP is created.
That means that Western countries will have to buy their oil, no more free oil.
America, the 1rst Iran's partner, withdraws its capitals, as an answer to the Mossadegh government decision. The iranian economy faces a crisis.
The law is adopted. And nobody could do nothing against it as slowly all the oil producers adopt the same policy.
But the whole iranian economy is based on America's exchange and the loss of this partner takes the country down to its knies.

1959: The Shah comes back. Again dictatorship.

1979: Iran's revolution.

In competition background between Europe and the USA, France and England propose Ayatollah Khomeyni to replace the Shah (he arrives in Iran in an Air France plane, with the French Foreign Minister, announced by the BBC).
Khomeyni promises the creation of a Democracy adapted to Iran: the model of the ISLAMIC DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

A few months later, 30000 communists are being assassinated by the SAVAC, the Iranian secret services.

Khomeyni proclaims the martial order. He suppresses all the political parties and declares his intentions to create the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC and his wishes to expand the model to the other muslim countries.

IRAK was a 14 million inhabitants country.
IRAN was a 68 million inhabitants country, 4th army of teh world.

facing the Islamic republic, and all the problems of terrorism it creates, Europe and the USA help Saddam Hussein to attack Iran. A resolution of the UN makes an embargo on IRAN.

1981-1988 : 7 years of war.

1989: At the end of the cold war, Iran's army is 60km from Bagdad.

But Russia is no more Iran's ally and Gorbatchev government wants to be closer to the USA.

The UN proposes Iran to come back to its 1981's borders. Iran accepts and signs an armistice with Irak.

Saddam has lost 2 million men in this war. His country is totally out of order. But he's got lost of Frenc-German weapons (the famous SCUDs) and American F16 aircrafts.

1990: Saddam attacks Kowe´t, a very small country between Irak and Iran.

You know what happened to Saddam then. And of course, the Islamic Republic became more and more powerful since then. And now Irak is following the same model.

How can I trust Mr Bush when he says he want democracy in these countries then?
When I was watching Foxnews last year, I was really shocked to see how they could transform Saddam Hussein in "a big devil" while he was USA's ally only 10 years before... teh poor man had not understood your manners....
February 16th, 2005  
Joe252
 
February 16th, 2005  
CO5060.20
 
That poor man you speak of, between this day and that committed mass genocide, gasing the Kurds, women and children. Tell me that is not a fact and I will tell you you are a liar. That very same Sadaam had 12 years if I do recall to just admitt to not having WMDs. He had 12 years to comply with UN (United Nations, not just the United States) orders to which he himself agreed to. Then, the Honorable George W. Bush gave him yet more time to comply. With time a' waisting, we have him a deadline that he could either meet, or be destroyed. He refused to meet that deadline (which was not just for WMD's) and so the United States, Italy, Britain, and Japan forceably removed him from power, only to have all of those countries agree that a Democracy is what is best for that country. Is it not true that in Iraq, there was ONE name on the ballot and that was Sadaam. Is it not true that Sadaam killed innocent Iraqies because they spoke out against him. Is it not true that Sadaam participated, HIMSELF in an assasination attempt on the previous dictator? Is that the kind of man that should be ruling a country so vital as Iraq is to the world economy, more importantly the millions of people who were scared, under penalty of death, to stay loyal. Something had to be done and well my friend, no one else stepped up to the plate.

As for your comment about the CIA controling 60% of T.V. adds, what makes you think this? On that, what facts made you believe this and where did you recieve them?