Was the invasion of Iraq necessary, can they fight back?




 
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July 5th, 2004  
SniperWannabee
 

Topic: Was the invasion of Iraq necessary, can they fight back?


Some say that it was and it wasnt, but in my opinion i think it was somwhat right and wrong.Some also say that they arent allowed to fight back. i say that they are because we are invading them.

Whats your Opinion?
July 7th, 2004  
Young Winston
 
 
I believe that to win any war you have to do two things:

1. Win the battle
2. Win the peace.

I don't think No.2 was thought out very well in Iraq. Its going to be a hard struggle for the US and the British (somehow the Aussies bought into this as well thanks to Johnny Howard) to gain eventual success.

I agree with Bill Clinton. We should have waited till the UN inspectors had finished and gone in with full UN backing. This would have taken some time and the US military were primed to go.

In conclusion, its great to see Saddam gone (an absolute bastard) but the US will have to stay in Iraq for many years. I wonder if the US public will stand for that.
July 7th, 2004  
Damien
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
1. Win the battle
2. Win the peace.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'll refer to a quote from my favorite all time movie: "Do you think, if you get [the military leader] that we will simply lay down our weapons and adopt American democracy? Without victory, there can be no peace."
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July 8th, 2004  
Young Winston
 
 
Hi Damien,

Great to see you are a cadet and have a strong interest in the Marines. They certainly have a fantastic fighting history particularly in the Pacific War in WW2.

Getting back to the topic.

I hope that we can get on top of the problems in Iraq fairly soon and a form of stable government can be achieved for the sake of all the Iraqi people.

To win any war you have to win the battle first, then win the peace. Winning the peace is usually more difficult than winning the war as it requires a lot more varying skills and resources than with fighting. I don't think the US planned for the "peace" very well. I think they hoped for the best case scenario and went for it.

If you haven't planned well for the peace then don't get into a war in the first place. The US will be in Iraq for a long time if they don't want the country to tear itself apart. I believe the violence will continue like it is now. Many more excellent US soldiers (including Marines) and innocent Iraqis (non combatants) will get killed.

In WW2 we had little choice in fighting Germany and Japan but while the war was still raging a lot of time and effort went into planning a post war peace. Even then there were still huge problems particularly in post war Germany.

A read a book recently called "Conqueror's Road" by Omar White. Omar White was an Australian journalist who was attached to Patton's 5th Army as it went into Germany. He describes the fighting and the problems in post war Germany. You should find it an interesting read Damien, about your country's military history in WW2.

Any way I am starting to ramble on a bit. I hope to read more of your forum contributions.
July 9th, 2004  
Duty Honor Country
 
 
We fought a war against muslim extremists in the Philippians from 1899-1904. That war was almost like Iraq. After major operations, the military declared victory. Soon after Americans were dying in attacks. The key factor in winning that war was winning over the people. US troops set up schools, improved roads, provided governmenr services and treated prisoners extremely good. Soon, the locals realized that life was better with the Americans.
While we may be doing those things now in Iraq, we did not do so in the begining. After the war ended, I felt we sat around for a few months while we impoved our living conditions but not those of the Iraqis. Then there is Abu Ghraib. If you want to learn more, check out the Marines Small wars manual.
July 9th, 2004  
Damien435
 
 
First off, do not listen to the media, I know they are supposed to tell the truth but they lie as much as Bush. I have seen letters written by very angry Soldiers in Iraq because they went out on patrol, a bomb went off, nobody was hurt but when they turned on CNN they were being told that 2 died and several more were wounded. The soldiers were upset and those of us at home are left to believe that we are hated by all Iraqis and that we are there oppressing the people.

Now, with that said, I will continue.

I believe the war was justified, we should have finished Saddam during Desert Storm, since we did not do that he was left in power, he then went and committed more crimes against the Kurds and plotted to kill President Bush Sr. that alone justifies a war in my opinion. The UN had 12 years to fix the problems in Iraq, I believe the US should be given the same amount of time.

And Iraq isn't the problem, the problem is still Al Qaeda, they are bringing in foreign fighters to fight in Iraq, they do not have to worry about the safety of their families as they are not in the country that they are fighting in. To truly win in Iraq I believe we must get rid of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
July 9th, 2004  
Damien
 
Other Damien, I agree. The war is completely justifiable.

However, I don't agree that Iraq wasn't a threat. Iraq was a growing problem, much like N. Korea is now. If we had left Saddam alone much longer, they could have attacked anyone with far worse results than the attacks of 9/11. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were the most dangerous men on Earth, but now Hussein is behind bars and bin Laden is hiding in some rat-infested cave. Just with that thought in my head, I can sleep a lot easier. Once bin Laden is found and persecuted, I will be much more at peace.

I applaud congress on their decision to invade Iraq.
July 9th, 2004  
Eric
 
The topic, or part of it (Some say that it was and it wasnt, but in my opinion i think it was somwhat right and wrong.) has been answered today by the Congress after the report of the Intelligence committee:

The US congress would have never allowed the war with what they know now today about the flaky intel they were provided with!

I guess they feel better saying it but what now?
We must finish it and clean up what was started, at least in the name of the 800 dead and thousands of our finest that have been the casualties of that mess.

And I want the freedom fries to be listed again as French fries at their cafeteria!
July 10th, 2004  
Young Winston
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
First off, do not listen to the media, I know they are supposed to tell the truth but they lie as much as Bush. I have seen letters written by very angry Soldiers in Iraq because they went out on patrol, a bomb went off, nobody was hurt but when they turned on CNN they were being told that 2 died and several more were wounded. The soldiers were upset and those of us at home are left to believe that we are hated by all Iraqis and that we are there oppressing the people.

Now, with that said, I will continue.

I believe the war was justified, we should have finished Saddam during Desert Storm, since we did not do that he was left in power, he then went and committed more crimes against the Kurds and plotted to kill President Bush Sr. that alone justifies a war in my opinion. The UN had 12 years to fix the problems in Iraq, I believe the US should be given the same amount of time.

And Iraq isn't the problem, the problem is still Al Qaeda, they are bringing in foreign fighters to fight in Iraq, they do not have to worry about the safety of their families as they are not in the country that they are fighting in. To truly win in Iraq I believe we must get rid of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
Look, I will be one of the first people to congratulate the Americans if they achieve what they set out to do. We can't turn back the clock now but my stomach churns when I think of the problems that have to be overcome. Unfortunately US voters wil not be waiting 12 years for a solution. Iraq will cost many more lives and billions of dollars per year until things settle down.

I would say it's a pretty touchy subject with most Americans at the moment and is also with plenty of Aussies but we aren't taking any casualties!

Security is going to continue to a be major problem for many years. Iraqi security is generally hopeless. More international troops are required with full UN backing. If Australia really is a fair dinkum member of the coalition of the willing, more Australian troops and humanitarian workers need to be sent to Iraq. We only have a very small number of defence personnel there at the moment (800). We may as well not be there but it suits John Howard (and George Bush) politically.

It was a big mistake to disband the Iraqi Army.

Iraq is not the only problem regarding terrorism. Saudi Arabia (America's main source of oil) and Pakistan are shaping up as huge problems. Lets not forget Afghanistan as well which is still a scarey place to be outside Kabul and Kandahar.


By the way. Saddam killed many Shiites after Desert Storm because George Bush Senior failed to support them during their uprising which George Snr encouraged.
July 10th, 2004  
DontEatAnAnimal
 
The war was never justified. There is and was no threat to us. For him to hit us with a Chemical missile or a really big fireworks he would have to have a ICBM (Intercontinental Balistic Missile) which obviuosly he never had and never would have. I completly understand with how the rebels from iraq. When you see a family member naked and tied down with sh*tty underwear on his head for humiliation. Thats just plain rediculas. But of course with our government there only going to punish the privates and low class soldiers and not the upperclass ones that knew about it and did not do a thing. Im sorry but if say mexico took us over and started doing that shit to us i would deffinatly be getting out my 10 gauge and .40 cal and making some mexicans look like the insides of burritos. Think of it in someone elses point of view. Would you really want mexico in this country not fixing are powerlines and water supply after a couple months because they just bombed the f*ck out of it? I sure the hell wouldn't want them in this country seting up a governement that i did not want and know about and giving say the Latinos all the power in the government like they have done with one of the tribes. They have made a tribe "i want to say the Sunnii's but im not sure" the dominant tribe of them all. I would be rip sh*t. They should have the power split up between 3 major powers or there will never be peace, such as 3 preidents ECT... Everything equal because when you favor one race or tribe theres always a rebelion no matter if we kill half of them or just sit there trying to solve it diplomaticly it wont matter when theres such a difference in power.