India builds a 2,500-mile barrier to rival the Great Wall of China - Page 2




 
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February 16th, 2006  
Damien435
 
 
I want to see how China is going to try and justify their claim on Kashmir.

"Well, Kashmir is a disputed territory between India and Pakistan that was not defined clearly enough as what belong belonged to which country and China believe we should get a chuck because a 2nd Leftenant in the British Army said we could have it."
February 17th, 2006  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I want to see how China is going to try and justify their claim on Kashmir.

"Well, Kashmir is a disputed territory between India and Pakistan that was not defined clearly enough as what belong belonged to which country and China believe we should get a chuck because a 2nd Leftenant in the British Army said we could have it."
In keeping with the terms of the Indian Independence Act, 1947, the ruler of the princely state of Jammu & Kashmir ceded it to India ............

Pakistan tried to illegally occupy
state of Jammu & Kashmir by infiltrating irregular armed raiders ......Stating that it was a Muslim majority state and forgetting that More Muslims live in India than in Pakistan ....... Indian forces pushed them out from the Srinagar valley.

Pakistan, in lieu of support, .handed over portions of Kashmir in its illegal occupation, to China ............ Pakistan has Ceddeted a Part of Kashmir to China in 1963. ............. Just to get their Big Brother Involved into the Whole Dispute ............. ceded land in state of Jammu & Kashmir enabled China and Pakistan to establish a road link through the Karakoram Highway......



Peace
-=SF_13=-
February 17th, 2006  
sandy
 
This is dangerous situation.
If China and Pakistan UNION cutted JAMMU-Demchok line,
Jammu&Kashmir area would be isolated.
strong panzer is necessary to prevent this situation.
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February 17th, 2006  
TBA_PAKI
 
Good way to justify your stand in Kashmir!

The partition act stated that the provinces will be added to both nations on the basis of majority of population with respect of their religion and head of provinces have nothing to do with this. Many Muslim dominated provinces thus added to Pakistan and same goes for India.

You cannot deny the fact that muslims are majority in entire Kashmir and they wanted to join Pakistan but that leader of Kashmir could not understand that!

Azad Kahmir is very peaceful region compared to your occupied Kashmir and the reason is clear. Even after mujahideen infiltration has stopped since 2002, acts of voilence continue their.

This is why conflict started: Hari Singh (hindu) acceded Kashmir to India (a move that sparked rebellion against him), and Pakistan claimed that was against the wishes of Kashmiri people (which proved to be true). The dispute then turned towards the military, with India sending in its army to repulse what they called "Pakistani invaders" in the Kashmir valley. The war ended in a stalemate situation with neither side winning.

Here are few pieces of your country's work in that area:

They can't have Free and Fair Elections!

"Chief amongst them are local elections they claimed were "rigged by the Indian government" so as to install pro-Indian politicians in Jammu and Kashmir".

Fake Promises!

"Over this time, a vast number in the Kashmir valley have grown disillusioned with the Indian government, for what they call "broken promises".
February 17th, 2006  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBA_PAKI
Good way to justify your stand in Kashmir!

The partition act stated that the provinces will be added to both nations on the basis of majority of population with respect of their religion and head of provinces have nothing to do with this. Many Muslim dominated provinces thus added to Pakistan and same goes for India.

You cannot deny the fact that muslims are majority in entire Kashmir and they wanted to join Pakistan but that leader of Kashmir could not understand that!
It was not a Democratic Process .......... People were not Given a chance to decide their future anywhere......... otherwise we would have had Very Different maps you know ........ it was up to the rulers to decide which Country they wanted to join .......... Other wise i can raise the issue of Sindh and baluchistan and many other states.


Quote:
Azad Kahmir is very peaceful region compared to your occupied Kashmir and the reason is clear. Even after mujahideen infiltration has stopped since 2002, acts of voilence continue their.
Stopped yes right .... everyone would love to belive that inflitration has stopped .



Quote:
Here are few pieces of your country's work in that area:
Quote:

They can't have Free and Fair Elections!

"Chief amongst them are local elections they claimed were "rigged by the Indian government" so as to install pro-Indian politicians in Jammu and Kashmir".

Fake Promises!

"Over this time, a vast number in the Kashmir valley have grown disillusioned with the Indian government, for what they call "broken promises".
Quote:
Source:BBC News

Kashmir elections 'fair but not free'

A soldier guides a voter to a polling booth in Doda



The elections in Indian-administered Kashmir, which concluded Tuesday, were conducted fairly, but not freely according to an independent team of observers.


The team was sent to the disputed territory by a think tank, the Institute of Social Sciences. They said the fear of attacks by separatist militants did not prevent large numbers of people from turning out to vote in some areas.



Who is Stopping the people from voting ? Why do they want then not to Vote ? . who is not letting a free and fair election a free and fair election ?.... I can go on and on about comparing the Infrastructure in So called Azad kashmir and the State of Jammu and Kashmir and go gaga about it .

Peace
-=SF_13=-
February 18th, 2006  
TBA_PAKI
 
Some of your points are valid and some of mine also hold ground but we both need to realize that Kashmir is still a disputed region.

President Musharraf has given different proposals for ending this dispute but Indian side is not giving positive response.

Also, 500,000+ Indian troops in Kashmir Region does not makes sense just to stop voilence!

And propaganda mechanism works well here for Indians!

Anyways! lets get over this debate!
February 18th, 2006  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBA_PAKI
President Musharraf has given different proposals for ending this dispute but Indian side is not giving positive response.
India would Never Accept a Division Based on religion Period .......Every now and then general Musharaf comes up with a new solution .........Then he would Announce it in the media ........ Going onto the Media and Babbling Proposals in the Media Dosen't help at all .......... if he is serious and not doign it just for the sake of Media limelight he would rather do them through the Proper Diplometic Channels .......... How many of his Proposals have been recided by India Officially ? ........ India is a Democracy and well as a beurocracy ......... I am sure you are familior with beurocracy everything has to Follow a standerd stupid set procedue it's not Like one persons with ........ he liked the Idea on the TV and went ahead with it ....

Quote:
Also, 500,000+ Indian troops in Kashmir Region does not makes sense just to stop voilence!
The Stratigic Value of the region and other membes said the region should be heavily Fortified voilence or no Voilence ........ and 500,000 I snot a Big Number , Just that Army is not Trained to Maintain Law and Order it's the job of the Police Force .........and that's what happne in Jammu and Kashmir ......... because of Pakistan Sponsored terrorism Army has to take charge of Law and Order in the state.

Peace
-=SF_13=-
February 19th, 2006  
roverin
 
 

HI TBA PAKI,

READ THIS AND GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT

PoK: With schools destroyed, the madrassas beckon

October 18, 2005


The destruction of the education infrastructure in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and some parts of the North west Frontier Province due to the October 8 earthquake may force parents to enroll their children in madrassas run by jIhadi groups.
The earthquake has flattened all schools in the region. Bagh district, 100 km from Muzaffarabad, had 341 schools including a degree college for a population of 500,000 people. Muzaffarabad had 1,512 schools for a population of 900,000 people.
Thousands of students face an uncertain future and may lose the academic year if their schools are not rebuilt. The Pakistan government has expressed its inability to restore the infrastructure in the immediate future. Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has said that reconstruction and rehabilitation of the quake-hit areas would take decades.
"The Bagh Degree College was the best in the region. It took us decades to build it. And now it is going to take us decades to restore it. You know how difficult it is to develop infrastructure in this country," says Sajid Iqbal, a teacher at the college. He is mourning the death of more than 700 students -- still buried in the college's wreckage.
"I have enough food. What I really need is education. I don't want to lose my academic year. I want to be in school as soon as possible," says Shahid, an eighth grade student in Bagh.
"Bagh was already short of schools. The government will take years to reconstruct the destroyed schools. Only Allah knows what will happen to our children," says Aslam Manzoor, whose daughter is in the 10th grade.
Zafarul Haq Kiani, a 46-year-old engineer employed by the public health division in Bagh, plans to migrate to Rawalpindi if the schools are not opened soon.

"If the schools are not reconstructed immediately or no alternative is provided promptly, then the children will lose interest in studies," says Muzaffar Khan, a social worker in Bagh.
And the fear is they might be lured by jihadi groups.
Since, Pakistan-occupied Kashmir is a disputed territory, it is the hub of jihadis. Almost all the buildings in the province display a slogan prominently -- 'Kashmir will become Pakistan through jihad!'
While driving through the region, one spots many signboards displaying the names of people honoured as heroes because they were killed 'fighting' the Indian Army.
If the schools were not rebuilt soon, social activists fear people will be forced to put their children in the madrassas, run mostly by jihadi groups.
Mohammad Amir Rana, a respected Pakistani journalist and author of the book The Seeds of Terrorism, says there are more than 1,200 madrassas in Pakistan-administered Kashmir run by jihadi outfits like the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, Hizbul Mujahideen, Al-Badr, Jamiatul Mujahideen, Al-Barq, Harkat-ul-Mujadeen, Jamiat-e-Islami and Jaish-e-Mohammad.
These outfits have been quick to help with relief in the quake-hit areas. The Jamatud Dawa (the defunct Lashkar-e-Tayiba) reached out to people in the far-flung areas through motorboats and mules and provided immediate relief.
It was the first to set up mobile X-ray machines and operation theatres. Its 350 volunteers were connected through wireless sets in Muzaffarabad and Bagh, where the communication infrastructure has been destroyed. They are helped by orthopedic surgeon Dr Amir Aziz, who was arrested in 2002 for treating Osama bin Laden. Dr Aziz has set up a mobile orthopedic unit at the Jamat's relief camp near Sangam Hotel in Muzaffarabad.
With the army being accused of giving priority to helping armed forces personnel and their relatives, the jihadi groups are winning the people over.
"People in Muzaffarabad chanted slogans against the government, President Pervez Musharraf and the army. However, they praised us. Even our detractors appreciated our relief efforts," says Javedul Hassan, relief coordinator for the Jamatud Dawa.
"Volunteers of the Jamatud Dawa saved my life by pulling me out of the rubble. No army, no government helped us," says Rashid Geelani, a retired police officer in Muzaffarabad.
So far, the jihadi groups are focusing on relief to the victims. They have not yet touched on areas like education in their campaign. But all it takes is an appeal through the Friday sermon and people may rush to their madrassas to enroll their children, where they would get education, food and shelter.
The danger is real that the next generation of jihadis are waiting to be created because of the disaster. The Pakistan government needs to move fast if that has to be prevented.

February 19th, 2006  
TBA_PAKI
 
My nation respects the peace process with India and your nation knows that so no need to hype things up.

Since 2003, not a single bullet has been fired from our side of LOC in your region so why complain?

President Musharraf already has ended Mujahideen movement and thats a major achievement so no need to worry about that.

And not all Madrassas preach fundamentalism in my country. In-fact this thing has nearly ended since enlightment program for Madrassas started in 2002. So you don't need to worry about that as well. We can take care of our things!

And SwordFish_13!

Your side does not explains things in very free manner.

Musharraf has made some proposals and discussed them directly with Indian government. I don't understand that why your media does not tells you that.

Between these proposals are still being kept behind doors due to sensitivity involved.

One proposal is of de-militarization of entire Kashmir!

But Indian side has yet not responded. And they are shying off but I tell you that this is the right time to do it as Musharraf is showing flexibility!

And I am clear on situation with Kashmir and I don't want to argue on that because of propagandish talk!

Indians will always justify their situation in Kashmir and blame voilence on us but they need to open their eyes as reality is more then just that!

As I said before that lets not covert this thread in to a Kashmir dispute platform because it benefits no one!
February 19th, 2006  
roverin
 
 

Topic: A Rejoinder


Quote from TBA_PAKI
[The partition act stated that the provinces will be added to both nations on the basis of majority of population with respect of their religion and head of provinces have nothing to do with this. Many Muslim dominated provinces thus added to Pakistan and same goes for India.

You cannot deny the fact that muslims are majority in entire Kashmir and they wanted to join Pakistan but that leader of Kashmir could not understand that]

I am sorry partner but you have yet to get your facts correct on history.
The Independence act stipulated that the six hundred princely state within the Indian Sub-Continent had a choice to join either India or Pakistan after signing the instrument of accenssion.Yes the demography pattern and geographical contiguity decided the majority of the issues.However the Nizam of Hyderabad and the ruler of Kashmir chose to abstain.During October 1947 ,that is exactly after almost two months of creation of India and Pakistan the marauders from Pakistan,aided and abetted by the Pak Govt and its military arm were raiding the Kashmir valley in a surreptitious bid to wrench it for themselves.Its a matter of shame that the marauders themselves muslims did not spare the large muslim population of Kashmir from muder, mayhem and rape.Greed and avarice took priority over religious affinity and teachings.In a desperate bid the ruler of Kashmir acceded to the Indian Union and asked for its forces to come to the rescue of the local population.Paks oft repeated cliche on Islamic brother hood has often been proved otherwise on ground.In 1972 the Bengali muslim population of erstwhile East Pakistan rose in revolt against the genocide and torture their fellow brethren muslims from West Pakistan had perpetrated on them and thus was Bangladesh born.

The treatment meted out to expatriate muslims who had migrated to Pakistan from India and called Mujahirs is well known, they were treated as second class citizens, the Punjabis and Sindhis always did rule the roost in Pakistan.
India by article 370 of the Indian constitution has granted special status to Kashmir and no outsiders even from India are permitted to settle in this verdant valley so as to preserve the ethnicity of the Kashmiris and their life style.Whereas in Azad Kashmir or Pak occupied Kashmir once again the Punjabis and Sindhis have slowly moved in to establish their summer homes and promote their business and the demography is under a gradual change.

Finally the muslim population in India is by far larger than in Pakistan and the second largest in the world after
Indonesia.Our President is Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam who is a muslim and is one of the top scientist in the country.

So my dear friend your so called logic of muslim dominated area etc falls on flat ground and the world better reconcile to it.