Illegal Aliens Protest

Ted said:
Hahahahaha, if this is your view, then stop moaning about these illegals! Eventhough the Dependecia theory has been revised over the years, most scolars do agree that there is a relation of dependency. Why do you reckon that The Netherlands have become "somewhat" succesful? We had a headstart by getting the riches for other nations. These nations never had the same chances we or you had. Denying the international economic relations is not only being blind but also very short sighted!

Oh yeah.. by the way, it don't matter how harsh you treat them or how cheap you sent them back. They rather die trying to get to the US, UK or any country where they think they can find their fortune. So good luck to you....

So... US citizens have to suffer and "share the wealth" because American forefathers were smarter than other ancestral leaders? Because colonial America capitalized upon the stupidity and mistakes of other nations, the US must now suffer? I know it sounds harsh but I guess destiny/fate/God/etc. dealt some people/nations a bad hand. I know that nations rely on each other for economic purposes (God forbid that I'd be sitting in a workshop twisting USB cables for 10 cents an hour for 26 hours a day), but why do the successful nations have to give freely to the lesser nations (sounds like communism doesn't it?)? I don't want to deny anyone their dream of becoming rich and successful (nor have mine denied), but couldn't they do it legally within the confines of the law? As far as I understand, illegal immigrants disrespected the US before they even set foot on American soil by having the intent to break its immigration laws. Immigration laws aren't enacted to keep dream-seekers out, but for the safety and accountability of both legal citizens and immigrants alike.
 
Once again, the US citizens don't have to suffer anything. Calling military submission stupid or a mistake by local inhabitants is somewhat simple, but not relevant in this discussion.
Look any nation can deal with the problem the way it suits them! I am just saying that there is no law or solution you can make or think of that will deter these illegal aliens from coming. That is all I am trying to say... Keep your wealth and your economy while it lasts, but looking through a microscope at a global problem will not solve it.
 
Oh yeah.. by the way, it don't matter how harsh you treat them or how cheap you sent them back. They rather die trying to get to the US, UK or any country where they think they can find their fortune. So good luck to you....
Oh bull shit, Mexico came into play the same time hte United states did, they just failed as a country. Thats not our fault and not our problem and not our responsbility to give them money.

I am just saying that there is no law or solution you can make or think of that will deter these illegal aliens from coming

We can only have so many non skilled workers in this country. The illegals scamper across the border carrying TB and absloutely nothing of value to the US economy except for man power. Then they reproduce like rabits and produce little leaches that suck off the economy, and raise crime rates with there poverty. The time has come to be an American citizen you have to come from one. As a chinese member so nicely put the US is becomeing another Mexico and that needs stop. They can keep there thirs world workforce and we will keep ours.

If they want to die drying to come into this country on a militerized border, so be it.
 
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Christ Rabs, what is so hard in trying to turn the tables? I am not.... hold on..... NOT saying it is your fault or any others fault. It is not like your are inviting them over, now is it? Do you really think they give a flying toss whether you have too many unskilled workers in America as it is? They don't!
Why are they coming? Because they think the US offers them a better future. Now what is so hard to understand here! I am not saying how to deal with it, I am not saying you should turn into Mother Theresa and I am not saying to adopt 20 illegal aliens.... all I am saying is that it MIGHT help to look at the bigger picture here. What you do with that picture afterwards is your own decision.
 
No offense intended Ted but, I don't think you have a leg to stand on here, my friend. It's impossible to defend the actions of anyone who enters any country illegally and demands that said country turn a blind eye to their crime and offer them the same advantages as a legal immigrant. Though I may not agree with all sentiments expressed and I do recognize the immigrants' economic plight, I do agree that this is a serious problem. The only thing that is being asked is of these people is that they obey the laws of the country that they so urgently wish to become a part of.
I don't think anyone has a problem with a disadvantaged legal immigrant trying to better himself legally. We don't seek to keep our neighbors under our economic thumb or to unfairly or unjustly persecute them. America is not the big, nasty country that some would make us out to be. If it was, I hardly think people would storming across the borders by boats, planes, tunnels, and on foot to get here.
To me, it's really rather simple, our families followed the immigration laws to make this their new homeland and we just ask that these new immigrants do the same. Flying other flags, demanding non-existent rights, and publicly flaunting our laws will not endear them to most Americans. If they want to become Americans, I say just do it the legal way.
I just thought I'd throw my two cents into the discussion.
 
No worries Dtop, none was taken. But what I can't figure out is this; we all see that millions will not follow standard procedure to apply for citizenship right? We all agree on that, so far so good. After that it's all about keeping them out and what they do to the economy. The suggested actions will not deter them from coming. So we need to change their attitude as well, otherwise they keep on coming!
Imo it like a watertap that keeps on running. Instead of turning it shut, people keep emptying the bucket underneath. It's what we call a "hap-snap" job instead of something structural.
 
I think I understand what you're saying and I think there is certainly valid concern about the economic effect having a large block of people willing to work for substandard wages has. This could be viewed as a self-perpetuating situation though. As long as those people are illegal, they can be easily taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers. If, on the other hand, they were legal immigrants, they would be protected by the same labor laws that protect American citizens. I think both sides would agree on that.
The rub lies in how to make an immigrant legal and protected. The answer seems to me to be to assure that these people come to America legally, either as immigrants with proper work visas or in the process of becoming citizens. They would be paid better and would, in turn pay their share of taxes and no longer be in conflict with American workers and would in fact be paying their own way.
 
My problem with illegals is not that there in the country, but by sneaking across the border they are cheating those who applied legally. Its sort like those people who cut in line in the movie theatre line (I hate those people). Not to mention, allowing illegals to stay it would simply encourage more to do so. I don't have a problem with loosening the immigration red tape for those people that are migrant or temporary workers.

I don't trust big business in the US. I think there needs to be a proper oversight to make sure that A) there is really a need for these workers and B) this is not simply an smokescreen by Big Business to skirt US labor laws and try and pay substandard wages and benefits to desperate people.
 
I don't know if anyone has ever spent much time in Mexico City, but if you have, you might have noticed the huge industrial and banking centers there. Almost the whole coastline of Mexico is resort country with a large influx of worldwide monies flowing in through them. There is no reason for the elite of Mexico to have the whole country Nationalized so that there can be no foreign investments. When the US owned and operated the oil exploration and refining companies in Mexico, everyone was getting a cut right down to the Mexican employees. The Government decided that they wanted the US out so they Nationalized all industries. Now, no other country wants to move there for fear of losing their investment. There has to be more foreign money coming in or the peso will continue to be worthless. That hurts the little guys.
 
Ted said:
Hahahahaha, if this is your view, then stop moaning about these illegals! Eventhough the Dependecia theory has been revised over the years, most scolars do agree that there is a relation of dependency. Why do you reckon that The Netherlands have become "somewhat" succesful? We had a headstart by getting the riches for other nations. These nations never had the same chances we or you had. Denying the international economic relations is not only being blind but also very short sighted!

Oh yeah.. by the way, it don't matter how harsh you treat them or how cheap you sent them back. They rather die trying to get to the US, UK or any country where they think they can find their fortune. So good luck to you....


So, it's hilarious that an American would want to put America first? I guess I don't get that. Let me guess, you put all other countries above your own? Mmhm, sure you do. lol

To say they never had the same chance as the US is B-S. The US was built from scratch.

I never said anything about denying international economic relations, in fact, we already give billions in aid. What I DID say was that it is not our resposibility to put all of our resources into raising poorer nations. They could get off of their asses and work and better their country just like Americans did.

It seems to me you're just defending those that break the law for the hell of it.



 
In response to Ted's post:

I agree with DTop. But I also see where Ted is coming from. He is saying that we need to deter these people from coming over but there is no way to do so. Kind of like the thread on inhibiting violent crime and the like. How do you stop someone from doing something they are 110% intent on doing regardless of the consequences?

Ted:

That is why this bill sitting in congress was broken down into two parts or perhaps two separate bills. One part/bill deals with immigration and the other deals with border security.

The one dealing with border security would make the border a national security affair and that is a federal jurisdiction and thus federal troops can be used to secure the border against possible terrorists infiltrating the US via Mexico. So I have understood. I may be oversimplifying the matter of course or I may be totally wrong. If anyone has anything to add please chime in.

We can not make America any less of a desirable place to live otherwise her own citizens would not want to live here. I also feel that her own citizens are being shortchanged by the "undesirables" that come across the border and wind up being supported by taxpayers.
 
How do you stop someone from doing something they are 110% intent on doing regardless of the consequences?

By putting a double layerd barrier in their way with the military backing it up.
 
Rabs said:
Im not even in that cruel.

A security fence/wall is good enough! Btw, there can be some other measures to keep them away. The US should learn some thing from Israelis and see how they protect their homeland.
 
I wish you good luck with your wall. But I'll go with Marinrhodes on this:
How do you stop someone from doing something they are 110% intent on doing regardless of the consequences?
For every solution there is an answer. Even if you get 95% of them, this won't deter them from going. Have you any idea how many drowned Africans wash up on the shores of Spain each year? 30 Miles of very dangerous sea should me more then enough...... at least more effective then a wall. But the numbers show that it doesn't.
 
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Hahahahaha... I like it Phoenix! This is one of those things every administration hopes goes right. All the difficult decisions get passed over to the next administration and so forth....
 
mmarsh said:
I don't trust big business in the US. I think there needs to be a proper oversight to make sure that A) there is really a need for these workers and B) this is not simply an smokescreen by Big Business to skirt US labor laws and try and pay substandard wages and benefits to desperate people.

*cough* Wal-Mart... *cough*

Missileer said:
I don't know if anyone has ever spent much time in Mexico City, but if you have, you might have noticed the huge industrial and banking centers there. Almost the whole coastline of Mexico is resort country with a large influx of worldwide monies flowing in through them. There is no reason for the elite of Mexico to have the whole country Nationalized so that there can be no foreign investments. When the US owned and operated the oil exploration and refining companies in Mexico, everyone was getting a cut right down to the Mexican employees. The Government decided that they wanted the US out so they Nationalized all industries. Now, no other country wants to move there for fear of losing their investment. There has to be more foreign money coming in or the peso will continue to be worthless. That hurts the little guys.

This made me laugh a little. I guess the government economists fell asleep during Econ 101 when it was on globalization and the growing world economy.

PJ24 said:
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To say they never had the same chance as the US is B-S. The US was built from scratch.

I never said anything about denying international economic relations, in fact, we already give billions in aid. What I DID say was that it is not our resposibility to put all of our resources into raising poorer nations. They could get off of their asses and work and better their country just like Americans did.

US = youngest superpower baby! From scratch to world's lone superpower in roughly 200 years.... 16% of the world's population controlling 64% of the world's wealth.... If I were another country, I'd hate America too.

Marinerhodes said:
In response to Ted's post:
How do you stop someone from doing something they are 110% intent on doing regardless of the consequences?

1) Legalize the Minutemen but with ultra-strict restrictions so they don't get all vigilante. 2) Raise colonies of rabid prairie dogs and set them loose along the border :p. 3) Learn from Israel's border control policies/practices.
 
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