If Japan Had Attacked the Soviet Union - Page 4




View Poll Results :Would the Axis destroy the Soviet Union and take control of Europe?
Yes, eventually the Red Army would be destroyed. 17 47.22%
No, the Red Army would still push the Axis out. 19 52.78%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

 
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December 6th, 2004  
airmanpatroler
 
 
Also USSR would not have been able to move thier factories to the east.
December 6th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
yes they can, thats what they did during the german ivnasion, tehy jsut took apart their factories, railed it east, and aassembled it like toys 8)
September 30th, 2005  
CanadianCombat
 
 
So far it sounds like none of you guys know anything. Heres the facts.

In 1939 the Russians and Japanese fought a series of battles in Mongolia. The Japanese got the worst of it,and this had a major impact on later battles in ww2.
Called Khalkhin Gol (or Nomonhan), it was basically a border dispute in which the Japanese tested their army against the Russian forces.The Japanese failed the test,and as a result decided to leave the Russians alone during ww2.This had a considerable effect on the Russian battles with the Germans far to the west.In 1941, Russia had nearly 40 divisions facing, a dozen Japanese Divisions in Manchuria, and most of these Russian divisions were shipped west when the Germans invaded in June.
The Japanese,Germans,and Italians had signed a military alliance in 1936 (the axis),but the terms were vague.The Germans hoped that the Japanese would attack Russian forces in Siberia if the Germans invaded Russia from the west.The outcome of Khalkhin Gol caused the Japanese to leave the Russians alone throughout the ww2.
In the 1930s Japan felt it was militarily superior to the Russians.Having defeated them on land and sea in the 1904-1905 war,the Japanese believed they still held a military edge.Then came a series of border clashes.They defeated in a division-sized battle in eastern Manchuriain 1938.They rationalized this defeat and spoiled for another round with the Russians. While the Japanese had some success in smaller border skirmishes,they had yet to defeat the Russians in a deliberate battle.
They sought to test their imagined advantage in May 1939, by forcibly redrawing the border between Japanese-held Manchuria and Russian-controlled Mongolia.A Japanese division advanced to the Khalkhin Gol (or Halha)river,and a reinforced Russian division threw them back.Undeterred, the japanese planned a larger attack in July. This battle involved two major changes.The Japanese reinforced the division they had used in May by adding two tank Regiments(70 tanks) and a new infantry regiment.The Russians brought in General Georgy Zhukov(later to be the architect of the Russian defeat of the Germans) and a larger force (about 3 divisions,mostly motorized).Because the battlefield was five hundred miles from the nearist railroad, the Japanese thought the Russians incapable of reinforcing their forces so quickly and heavily.Despite their transportation problems the Russians massed over 300 tanks against the Japanese. In the air both sides were more evenly matched.
The July battles were another disaster for the Japanese.Their initial attack on July 3 made some progress, but then the Russians attacked and forced the Japanese back.By July 14 , both sides halted.At this point , the Japanese decided that artillery was the key and brought in heavy guns.The artillery deuls during the last week of July went against the Japanese. The Russians were able to fire three times as many shells and had generally heavier guns.
In August the Russians had planned thier own attack, an amoured offencive that would settle this border dispute once and for all.Bringing up 4 divisions and 500 tanks(as well as 24,000 tons of ammunition), the Russians moved forward against the 2 japanese divisions on August 20.This was , in effect, the first real armouredoffencive of the 20th century and was a smashing success. Within 4 days the Japanese had been pushed back to what the Russians considered the real border. There the Russians halted, although they could have kept chasing the shattered Japanese. Events back in europe made further involvment in Manchuria inadvisable.In September a cease-fire agreement was signed, thus ending the fighting.
as ww2 battles go Khalkhin Gol was not a big one.The japanese lost 18,000 casualties out of 40,000 troops involved, the Russians lost 14,000 casualties out of 70,000 troops sent in. Altogether 100 tanks were lost and 200 aircraft.
The japanese knew the correct conclusion from 3 months of battle. They knew that the Russians were superior and discarded their pre-Khaklhin Gol plan for assembling 40 divisions to push the Russians back to the Ural Mountians.At the same time the Nazi-Soviet treaty was anounced. This caused the Japanese to renounce their 1936 treaty with Germany.This hurt Germany the most because they lost an allie in the east which let the Russians sent most of the 40 divisions to help defend Moscow in late 1941.
One of the most curios things about Khalkhin Gol was the rest of the world knew almost nothing of it and any other smaller Russo-Japanese clashes of the second world war. The Japanese naturally were not inclined to spread the word about their unpleasent defeat against the Russians,and the Russians were obsessed with secrecy.

Japan could never had defeated the Russians because they did not have the amount of equipment that the russians had and the Japanese army was a very poorly equiped one. On the other hand Russian could have wiped out the japanese before the Germans invaded the russians if they just kept going.

Hope this clears things up.
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October 1st, 2005  
Doppleganger
 
 
Good info there CanadianCombat but no need to insult people whilst doing so.

If you read my posts you'll see that I agree with you. Japan attacking the Soviet Union in 1941 would have been a disaster, for the Japanese. However just the mere threat of a possible Japanese attack could have made a difference to the Battle for Moscow.
October 13th, 2007  
Josh678
 
 
The Red Army would be eventally destroryed due to it having to fight a two front war it would have to divide its forces.
October 20th, 2007  
LeEnfield
 
 
Russia lost 20 million people during WW2 but this did not affect it's performance one jot. Could or would America take these loses and shrug them off, the problem with invading a place like Russia is it's size. America says that it is a big country, but it would fit into Russia about three times. An invading Army needs to be able to control the what happens on the ground and in Russia this is almost impossible.
October 20th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianCombat
So far it sounds like none of you guys know anything. Heres the facts.

I like that this is coming from someone who doesn't know much more than those he says don't know anything. The Red Army had anywhere from half a million men to over a million men in the Far East at any point during the war. The myth of Siberian divisions saving the Soviet Union is just that. Divisions were used from all over the Soviet Union, including the Caucasus, Urals, Trans-Baikal, and the Far East. They were helpful, but the offensive could have proceeded with or without them. In fact they could have been sent anyway since there were so many of them in the Far East. The Japanese wouldn't have accomplished much of anything, Soviet forces in the Far East had increased to a rather large number so that they'd have kept them at bay and conscripts from the area could have been sent to the West or taken the place of those divisions being sent to the west, the latter is in fact what happened.
October 25th, 2007  
Josh678
 
 
True they hd a large number of men but they would be fighting a two front war and Germany outclassed the Russians in firepower and tactics and the Jappanese were fanatics who fought to the last man.
October 25th, 2007  
Kunikov
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh678
True they hd a large number of men but they would be fighting a two front war and Germany outclassed the Russians in firepower and tactics and the Jappanese were fanatics who fought to the last man.
Can you be any more general? The Red Army was prepared to fight a two front war, in fact they did fight a multifront war if one considers the fact that they fought Finland, as well as Romania in the South, etc. They still had troops stationed in Iran, which they jointly invaded with England, and on the border with Turkey, as well as half a million men lined up against Japanese aggression.
October 26th, 2007  
LeEnfield
 
 
Before the Russians had defeated Germany they also turned there attention to Japanese in China and with in the space of a couple of weeks had destroyed them completely. They went at them just the same as they had the Germans and totally wiped them out