If this doesn't scare you, nothing will
Well, I have to admit: it doesn't scare me! I see it as a lot of fact-twisting, scape goat seeking tabloid news. Maybe you should change "Home of the brave, land of the free" into "Home of the paranoid, land of the legal alien". The solution in not only found in tougher legislation. The US side of the story, the one that makes a fortune of these people is totally left out. And you do see that there are many businesses profitting from these illegals, right?
And my last note: you also realize that the harder, more paranoid and hysterical you crack down on these people, the less they will embrace the US and the more extreme they will get too? (But most of you probably don't care about that, because this gives you the justify your own stance. They are anti American so hunt them down and deport all of them!!)
And my last note: you also realize that the harder, more paranoid and hysterical you crack down on these people, the less they will embrace the US and the more extreme they will get too? (But most of you probably don't care about that, because this gives you the justify your own stance. They are anti American so hunt them down and deport all of them!!)
PJ24
Active member
I was too busy laughing at all of the grammatical errors on the posters/signs to be scared.
"This is ARE land!"
"US has awaken sleeping giant"
I do find it ironic, however, that they've yet to realize the only reason they are still alive after such protests is because Americans fought and died to make sure people in general in this country had basic human rights.
I'd like to see illegals try that in Mexico.
Btw, the Che poster made me giggle.
Ted, Ted, Ted. Your generalities and accusatory tone ruin your argument.
There's no reason to be hysterical or paranoid, we can come down hard on them without the silliness. And guess what? That's our right. We have a right to govern our country as we see fit, the US isn't global community property.
I haven't seen anyone say that we should deport them because they're Anti-American, though, the fact that the illegal immigrants ARE anti-American is ironic in and of itself.
Trying to dismiss the arguments of others by claiming they're being irrational and slapping their points of views by saying it's all because of one thing when you've been told differently isn't any way to debate. (excuse my run on sentence, I'm tired)
Do images like these anger many Americans? Yes. And rightly so. It is especially disturbing to see all of the hypocrisy in their protests.
Despite what many say, there is a culture in the United States, one that was born of many different ones. It is not too much to ask that if you come to our country, you respect our laws, our way of life, and our culture. Instead of trying to make us fit you, you should try to make yourself fit us. That doesn't mean you have to give up your identity, in fact, the US is just one of the many countries that allows you to keep it and still support, respect and practice the "American way of life."
To come here illegally, contribute little or nothing to the economy, and enjoy rights earned and paid for by Americans is a very disrespectful thing. Not one illegal immigrant has the right to protest, yet, we allowed them. Yes, allowed. We could handle the protests much differently if we wanted. Esp. with some of the more militant protesters.
So really, they have no RIGHT to be Anti-American on US soil, yet, because of those basic human rights we believe in here and some complacency too (I'd be lying if I didn't admit that), they are still allowed.
Any American that pays taxes in this country has the right to be angry over the protests, and I would also say he's even justified in that anger.
I personally don't get mad when I see them, I feel disheartened and annoyed with not just the illegals, but also at MY government for not slamming something very heavy down on this problem. Starting with the companies that employ them and filtering all the way down to Jose.
"This is ARE land!"
"US has awaken sleeping giant"
I do find it ironic, however, that they've yet to realize the only reason they are still alive after such protests is because Americans fought and died to make sure people in general in this country had basic human rights.
I'd like to see illegals try that in Mexico.
Btw, the Che poster made me giggle.
Ted, Ted, Ted. Your generalities and accusatory tone ruin your argument.
There's no reason to be hysterical or paranoid, we can come down hard on them without the silliness. And guess what? That's our right. We have a right to govern our country as we see fit, the US isn't global community property.
I haven't seen anyone say that we should deport them because they're Anti-American, though, the fact that the illegal immigrants ARE anti-American is ironic in and of itself.
Trying to dismiss the arguments of others by claiming they're being irrational and slapping their points of views by saying it's all because of one thing when you've been told differently isn't any way to debate. (excuse my run on sentence, I'm tired)
Do images like these anger many Americans? Yes. And rightly so. It is especially disturbing to see all of the hypocrisy in their protests.
Despite what many say, there is a culture in the United States, one that was born of many different ones. It is not too much to ask that if you come to our country, you respect our laws, our way of life, and our culture. Instead of trying to make us fit you, you should try to make yourself fit us. That doesn't mean you have to give up your identity, in fact, the US is just one of the many countries that allows you to keep it and still support, respect and practice the "American way of life."
To come here illegally, contribute little or nothing to the economy, and enjoy rights earned and paid for by Americans is a very disrespectful thing. Not one illegal immigrant has the right to protest, yet, we allowed them. Yes, allowed. We could handle the protests much differently if we wanted. Esp. with some of the more militant protesters.
So really, they have no RIGHT to be Anti-American on US soil, yet, because of those basic human rights we believe in here and some complacency too (I'd be lying if I didn't admit that), they are still allowed.
Any American that pays taxes in this country has the right to be angry over the protests, and I would also say he's even justified in that anger.
I personally don't get mad when I see them, I feel disheartened and annoyed with not just the illegals, but also at MY government for not slamming something very heavy down on this problem. Starting with the companies that employ them and filtering all the way down to Jose.
For the most part it is not my fight and care not so much on how the US is going to resolve this. But:
This is not such a one-two-three assumption. They contribute in branches that lay below the IRS-radar. They are exploited there while the profit go to normal, legit shops... As I said, this is an assumption I am willing to make. Why do they want so desparatly to come to the US.... to work! And if they could work in the US, would they still come?
This is not such a one-two-three assumption. They contribute in branches that lay below the IRS-radar. They are exploited there while the profit go to normal, legit shops... As I said, this is an assumption I am willing to make. Why do they want so desparatly to come to the US.... to work! And if they could work in the US, would they still come?
PJ24
Active member
Ted said:
Actually, they don't really contribute to the US or the US tax payer at all. They support private business profits, yes, but the tax payer has to pay for them to be here. We don't really get anything out of it.
They come here to work because they can make more in a month than they can in six months in Mexico. Many of them send a majority of their money back to Mexico, a friend of mine with Bank of America says that's a few billion dollars a year market in itself. They don't pay taxes, yet, still get health care, food assistance, etc. Who pays for that? Well, not the businesses, we are.
If they couldn't work, you can probably bet more would be taking the time to actually file for legal status in the US.
Ok I admit it scared me. But I think even a cooking show would scare me if it had that theme music. :mrgreen:
But seriously:
I saw those protests briefly on television here, but they never explained what was meant with those banners "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us". I think its pretty impertinent and not very intelligent, as an immigrant, to demand additional rights in your host country and at the same time to violate national pride, accuse the established society of racism and to carry it to extremes by saying the land in fact belongs to you and you want those others out.
Kind of I-dont-want-a-slice-of-the-cake-I'll-take-the-whole-bakery-mentality. I think the U.S. should build that border wall and stop illegal immigration completely. I'm not against immigration, but it should be in the hands of the government and thus the population to decide about it. Migration is not a basic human right as far as I know so there should be the possibility to say "nay", especially to people who are likely to become a burden to society (economically and otherwise).
But seriously:
I saw those protests briefly on television here, but they never explained what was meant with those banners "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us". I think its pretty impertinent and not very intelligent, as an immigrant, to demand additional rights in your host country and at the same time to violate national pride, accuse the established society of racism and to carry it to extremes by saying the land in fact belongs to you and you want those others out.
Kind of I-dont-want-a-slice-of-the-cake-I'll-take-the-whole-bakery-mentality. I think the U.S. should build that border wall and stop illegal immigration completely. I'm not against immigration, but it should be in the hands of the government and thus the population to decide about it. Migration is not a basic human right as far as I know so there should be the possibility to say "nay", especially to people who are likely to become a burden to society (economically and otherwise).
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Hot air and nonsense ...
Ted Ted Ted ... you still don't get it do you?
These people are in this country illegally ... what part of "they haven't earned the right to be taken seriously in this country" don't you understand. Most of us realise that the illegal aliens have taken way more out of our society than they will ever contribute to it ... the assertion that they pay taxes to the IRS is about as stupid as any statement that has been made in these arguments ... the LAST thing an illegal wants is for the government to know where they work and live ... most of their wages are paid to them under the table .. for most of them the only taxes they pay are as a result of the taxes on the things they purchase here in the states.
I realise that there are companies that (because of greed), will hire ANY illegal alien because they can hire them more cheaply than legal citizens. These companies SHOULD have the book thrown at them to the full extent of the law and it should be made so very very expensive to hire illegals that these companies will no longer traffic in this cheap labor. These companies do a great disservice to all Americans but they especially impact legal immigrants who would normally use these jobs as entry level jobs until they can get training and get a better job. The legals are cheated out of these jobs because there are illegals who decided to enter this country without going through legal channels to get clearance to enter this country.
BUT ... to suppose that Americans are in some way reacting to these protests out of a sense of bigotry or hatred is preposterous ... the fact that these groups are allowed to gather (let alone protest) instead of being arrested and deported (they are illegal after all), should tell you that your assertions are so much hot air and are so far off the mark as to be considered ludicrous by ANY reasoning adult . . .
ONLY SOMEONE WITH ANTI-AMERICAN BELIEFS COULD CONTINUE TO ASSERT THAT AMERICANS ARE ANTI-IMMIGRATION BIGOTS WHEN FACTS ARE PRESENTED TO DISPROVE THESE CLAIMS.
Ted said:
Ted Ted Ted ... you still don't get it do you?
These people are in this country illegally ... what part of "they haven't earned the right to be taken seriously in this country" don't you understand. Most of us realise that the illegal aliens have taken way more out of our society than they will ever contribute to it ... the assertion that they pay taxes to the IRS is about as stupid as any statement that has been made in these arguments ... the LAST thing an illegal wants is for the government to know where they work and live ... most of their wages are paid to them under the table .. for most of them the only taxes they pay are as a result of the taxes on the things they purchase here in the states.
I realise that there are companies that (because of greed), will hire ANY illegal alien because they can hire them more cheaply than legal citizens. These companies SHOULD have the book thrown at them to the full extent of the law and it should be made so very very expensive to hire illegals that these companies will no longer traffic in this cheap labor. These companies do a great disservice to all Americans but they especially impact legal immigrants who would normally use these jobs as entry level jobs until they can get training and get a better job. The legals are cheated out of these jobs because there are illegals who decided to enter this country without going through legal channels to get clearance to enter this country.
BUT ... to suppose that Americans are in some way reacting to these protests out of a sense of bigotry or hatred is preposterous ... the fact that these groups are allowed to gather (let alone protest) instead of being arrested and deported (they are illegal after all), should tell you that your assertions are so much hot air and are so far off the mark as to be considered ludicrous by ANY reasoning adult . . .
ONLY SOMEONE WITH ANTI-AMERICAN BELIEFS COULD CONTINUE TO ASSERT THAT AMERICANS ARE ANTI-IMMIGRATION BIGOTS WHEN FACTS ARE PRESENTED TO DISPROVE THESE CLAIMS.
03USMC
Active member
The Atzlan Movement is a fringe bunch of rabble rousers and like most exteremist groups does not represent the Mexican American or even the Illegal community.
As far as illegals putting nothing into the community or society well thats a two sided coin. Alot of illegals work on false SSN's (available from your local forger for about 250.00 US) This means that the employer takes all applicable taxes out. This also means that these taxes cannot be reclaimed thru income tax because the the SSN is bogus, I believe that the FED nets around 700 mil a year from this.
Yes the illegals are breaking the law. Yes they should apply legally for Visas (If they could get them.VISA regs for Mexicans and Central Americans are pretty skewed.)
But it seems to me alot of people are buying in to Chris Simcox's rhetoric without looking deeper.
As far as illegals putting nothing into the community or society well thats a two sided coin. Alot of illegals work on false SSN's (available from your local forger for about 250.00 US) This means that the employer takes all applicable taxes out. This also means that these taxes cannot be reclaimed thru income tax because the the SSN is bogus, I believe that the FED nets around 700 mil a year from this.
Yes the illegals are breaking the law. Yes they should apply legally for Visas (If they could get them.VISA regs for Mexicans and Central Americans are pretty skewed.)
But it seems to me alot of people are buying in to Chris Simcox's rhetoric without looking deeper.
DefiantCdr
Active member
Noone has the right to attack another country in the way those peole are, while taking advantage of the resources that country has to offer. The disrespect towards the American flag and people that was shown only proves that these people really have no right to be in the US. Anyone who has that little pride in one of the world's best nations does not deserve privliges that come with being a part of it. Millions of people would kill for the oppourtinities that these people have, and I think that people need to spend more time focusing on what they have than what they would like to have.
Well said!
Well said!
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
MIRV FAN said:
Well I think this is a very short sighted way of handling this issue, they should be encouraged get together in public an protest, that way it would be a lot easier for the authorities to round them up and stick them on the next plane, train or boat back to their country of origin.
I am sorry while I agree with Ted to some degree about exploitation it doesnt mitigate the fact that these people have entered and remained in the country illegally as far as I can see their only rights are to a free and cheap trip home.
Chief Bones said:
Dear Chief..... This is my point too! I think I get quite alright. I agree with you that these companies that use illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law. I am not saying that the protest had anything to do with bigotry at all! I was merely pointing at the mechanism of demand. I think that a lot of illegals continu to poor in, because of the assumption they can work somehwere. It's my thought that if you could end this thought, you might minimalise the flow of illegals into the US. If there is nothing to find, why should they go? If they could chose between: poor and no rights or poor with rights.... that shouldn't be so hard, would it?
ASTRALdragon
Active member
MIRV FAN said:
Mmm good TV.....
I'm just waiting for when these protesters get out of hand (i.e. violent and stupid) and THEY wake up the REAL sleeping giant. It already gettout out of hand as it is near my work in LA. I work near the FBI building and the last couple days has seen 50k+ protesters in the street, which is bad for me and everyone else trying to get in and out of work/school. 40 minutes to move down 3 blocks to reach the 405 freeway entrance is unacceptable.
But it does give me time to check out all the lovely ladies protesting...
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
ASTRALdragon said:Mmm good TV.....
I'm just waiting for when these protesters get out of hand (i.e. violent and stupid) and THEY wake up the REAL sleeping giant. It already gettout out of hand as it is near my work in LA. I work near the FBI building and the last couple days has seen 50k+ protesters in the street, which is bad for me and everyone else trying to get in and out of work/school. 40 minutes to move down 3 blocks to reach the 405 freeway entrance is unacceptable.
But it does give me time to check out all the lovely ladies protesting...
Dude, try and stay away from the freaks and geeks. If you're near the FBI building and something happens. You might be cought up in the sh*t.
Any good looking ladies?
major liability
Active member
This doesn't scare me, just pisses me off.
Rob Henderson
Banned
"This is ARE land"
"We didnt cross the border, the border cross us"
erm...no it didnt...the border is an inanimate object...Anyway, this is our land, your leaders and military figures gave it to us...Ever heard of the Adams-Onis Treaty? Or the Louisiana Purchase? Or how about the Spanish-American War? (US victory I do believe)..so get ya facts right b4 you come into my home illegally and expect us to greet you with open arms and..what was it...69 billion dollars of social services every year....Hell no!
"We didnt cross the border, the border cross us"
erm...no it didnt...the border is an inanimate object...Anyway, this is our land, your leaders and military figures gave it to us...Ever heard of the Adams-Onis Treaty? Or the Louisiana Purchase? Or how about the Spanish-American War? (US victory I do believe)..so get ya facts right b4 you come into my home illegally and expect us to greet you with open arms and..what was it...69 billion dollars of social services every year....Hell no!
ironhorseredleg
Active member
Here's a thought: Line the borders and international airports with immigrant visa posts, open our borders totally, and document all (ALL) folks who enter our country. Require only basic documentation to receive a work visa, and document every non-citizen who enters--photo, fingerprint, DNA--and then we can track, tax, and/or deport them as we wish. Instead of sending our home defense overseas, let them man these posts. After the initial onslaught, the tide will stem, and all those who have made a living off of importing illegals will be applying for government aid.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.