Originally Posted by MontyB

Because no matter how much money we shovel into Africa it will never be enough.

What Africa wants is good leaders not more money.

The bottom line is that for many of these people little or no aid is coming in. For whatever need their basic needs are not being meet nor can they be meet thru no fault of their own.
A thought for what it's worth: Perhaps one has to endure some hardship to truly understand hardship.

The issue of immigration is something every developed nation is going to have to face. i have seen it up close and personal on the U.S. / Mexico border. Most of the people crossing that border are seeking a better life, not fleeing a war, although at one time there were large numbers of El Salvadorians and Nicaraguans who were doing just that.
In Europe, large numbers are, in fact, war refugees.
No matter how humane a nation tries to be, it is simply impossible to accept everyone who wants to come in. In the end, some must be sent back. In order to do that it's necessary to get the cooperation of the nation of origin and many don't want their people back. In some countries when there is a war or civil unrest, they open the prisons and give them a 48 hour head start.
It's heart breaking, but Europe may have to do what the U.S. does with Haitians; incarcerate them on an offshore island until you can send them home. Out of sight/out of mind. Australia also uses that approach.
And now that a European summit has been called on this subject, you can bet that will be the solution of choice.

Originally Posted by JOC

The bottom line is that for many of these people little or no aid is coming in. For whatever need their basic needs are not being meet nor can they be meet thru no fault of their own.
A thought for what it's worth: Perhaps one has to endure some hardship to truly understand hardship.

Do you have to jump off a cliff to find out whether it actually hurts when you hit the bottom?

No.

Most historic nations that are stable and prosperous are not stable because they have always been that way but because at some point in their history the people stood up and threw out the tyrannical and generally incompetent leaders they had, France and America had their revolutions, Britain had its civil wars, Europe in general had its "enlightenment" period even Turkey had Mustafa Kemal to drag it into a modern secular world and Africa and the Middle East need to emulate these feats.

The modern world can not keep pumping money into nations who's leaders are corrupt, tyrannical lunatics and think things will ever get better, these regions will not change until the people themselves stand up and force change.

Monty you are incorrect in some cases. Take the Sudan for example nobody has provided them with barely a dime in aid. The country that may have suffered more than any other since WW2. Millions have been killed by the Muslim north and the Lords army to the south. No economic or military aid has been provided to the suffering Sudanese peoples caught up in this tyranny. It is easy to look at history books and find examples that worked out, however for some this simply has not been the case and through no fault of their own.

Originally Posted by JOC

Monty you are incorrect in some cases. Take the Sudan for example nobody has provided them with barely a dime in aid. The country that may have suffered more than any other since WW2. Millions have been killed by the Muslim north and the Lords army to the south. No economic or military aid has been provided to the suffering Sudanese peoples caught up in this tyranny. It is easy to look at history books and find examples that worked out, however for some this simply has not been the case and through no fault of their own.

I am not for a second suggesting that they look at the history books, find examples that have failed and emulate them.
However if for example the Sudanese are either too apathetic or cowed to rise up and depose their leaders why should we do it for them?

What pisses me off, the UK government has pledged to donate £100m aid towards the refugee crisis, yet all our public services are having the lives squeezed out of them with drastic cuts, our nurses, police officers, civil/public servants have endured 5 years of pay freezes in the name of austerity measures, yet they see fit to "give" away £100m of "our" money without a moment's thought. Yesterday, I read somewhere about China and their policy of only one child per family due to there being 400 people per square mile. The UK has 1000 people per square mile, our public services are at breaking point, our schools and hospitals are at breaking point due to cuts and yet Europe is screaming for us to take more - roll on the referendum, I for one will be voting to leave the EU.

Originally Posted by The Highway Man

What pisses me off, the UK government has pledged to donate £!00m aid towards the refugee crisis, yet all our public services are having the lives squeezed out of them with drastic cuts, our nurses, police officers, civil/public servants have endured 5 years of pay freezes in the name of austerity measures, yet they see fit to "give" away £100m of "our" money without a moment's thought. Yesterday, I read somewhere about China and their policy of only one child per family due to there being 400 people per square mile. The UK has 1000 people per square mile, our public services are at breaking point, our schools and hospitals are at breaking point due to cuts and yet Europe is screaming for us to take more - roll on the referendum, I for one will be voting to leave the EU.

Yes sometimes governments do things that make no sense at all, ours tells us that any extra foreign aid comes from the foreign aid budget and it just shuffles its commitments else where.

But the solution to the Syrian problem lies in Syria not Europe and it is time that someone stepped in and sorted this out, I think the idea of developed nations not going after ISIS and continuing this hands off confrontation is a failed strategy.

Perhaps it is time to do a WW2 reenactment and let the Russians loose in Syria while the West heads off through Iraq, we can meet at the border, shake hands, have a beer and then start a new cold war.

Originally Posted by The Highway Man

What pisses me off, the UK government has pledged to donate £100m aid towards the refugee crisis, yet all our public services are having the lives squeezed out of them with drastic cuts, our nurses, police officers, civil/public servants have endured 5 years of pay freezes in the name of austerity measures, yet they see fit to "give" away £100m of "our" money without a moment's thought. Yesterday, I read somewhere about China and their policy of only one child per family due to there being 400 people per square mile. The UK has 1000 people per square mile, our public services are at breaking point, our schools and hospitals are at breaking point due to cuts and yet Europe is screaming for us to take more - roll on the referendum, I for one will be voting to leave the EU.

Cameron has already given £1.7 BILLION to the Indian Navy to build up their fleet, yet the cretin is cutting the British Military to the bone. Illegal immigrants get more in hand out then I do state pension, thousands of the elderly die each year because of the p*&ss poor state pension.

He needs to learn the old adage, "Charity begins at home."

We have similar issues in the US with government in power giving away money to those who do nothing, while those who are retired are being strangled as their income shrinks. It's easy for someone with nothing to get medical care but someone who has worked most of his life cant afford to get sick. It pays to be a professional lay about.
We also send to much work abroad in the name of this so-called global economy vs. trying to keep the people at home busy working. We take in more immigrants than any other country in the the world something that has actually made our country strong since most of them have desired to work and move up the ladder.
My point with the Sudan is these people are dying - being killed by the millions and nobody's has so much as lifted a finger to assist them. With the way the US doles out money it wouldn't hurt to help these people. Hell even if it took the military to ensure it got to the right place, screw the UN they aren't worth a hill of beans.

This crisis is not unique, all armed conflicts creates refugees. The Syrian one has created an exodus and now we have to deal with it. The solution is in Syria, but that doesn't change the flow of refugees right now. People living in a totalitarian state don't rise up against it very easily, the consequences of doing so can be severe and dangerous for them. Therefore, to demand them to deal with it is naive. Why aren't the North Koreans rising up against their rulers? It took a long time for the former communistic countries in Europe to get rid of their totalitarian governments, why? It took a long time for the South American countries to get rid of their military juntas, why? The Cambodians couldn't get rid of Pol Pot until Vietnam intervened militarily. The list goes on and on

So we can read about historical events and learn, but why reading about things when not learning a damn thing? That is a waste of time