Healthcare Bill vs. US Senate

What I would like to know is what would be the cost of doing nothing? The uninsured help to clog up emergency rooms, causing those costs to be passed on to the insured. Primary care is a budget decision in many households, often regarded as a luxury over cable tv (don't agree with this, but it is reality), so health issues get exacerbated and cost more and longer to fix and so on and so forth.

At the moment the debate seems to be about I can afford healthcare, but I don't want to spend anymore and I represent those who can't afford healthcare and would like some.

Neither side has covered themselves in glory, but I think that the naysayers have done a better job in scaremongering. So I shall wait to see what gets produced, then what gets funded, then what gets put into action; with baited, but not held breath.
 
Sukio said:
Now you are speaking of the long run in terms of cost.
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Why do you think they are loading up things later in the program? So they can say it won't cost much, but with out mentioning that would be for the first few years only, plus the medicare tax hike come on as soon as the bill passes, adding to the cost smokescreen. Ignore the longer term to your peril.
 
Partisan said:
What I would like to know is what would be the cost of doing nothing? The uninsured help to clog up emergency rooms, causing those costs to be passed on to the insured. Primary care is a budget decision in many households, often regarded as a luxury over cable tv (don't agree with this, but it is reality), so health issues get exacerbated and cost more and longer to fix and so on and so forth.

At the moment the debate seems to be about I can afford healthcare, but I don't want to spend anymore and I represent those who can't afford healthcare and would like some.

Neither side has covered themselves in glory, but I think that the naysayers have done a better job in scaremongering. So I shall wait to see what gets produced, then what gets funded, then what gets put into action; with baited, but not held breath.
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I find it amazing that two serious questions have been asked about the mechanics of the proposed system which if answered would actually be helpful and yet all we have seen is:
1) "Its all the democrats fault"
2) "Its all the republicans fault"

You wonder why politics never achieves anything.
 
Bacara said:
There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care? Quick, try to think of one government office that runs efficiently. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? The Department of Transportation? Social Security Administration? Department of Education? There isn't a single government office that squeezes efficiency out of every dollar the way the private sector can. We've all heard stories of government waste such as million-dollar cow flatulence studies or the Pentagon's 14 billion dollar Bradley design project that resulted in a transport vehicle which when struck by a mortar produced a gas that killed every man inside. How about the U.S. income tax system? When originally implemented, it collected 1 percent from the highest income citizens. Look at it today. A few years back to government published a "Tax Simplification Guide", and the guide itself was over 1,000 pages long! This is what happens when politicians mess with something that should be simple. Think about the Department of Motor Vehicles. This isn't rocket science--they have to keep track of licenses and basic database information for state residents. However, the costs to support the department are enormous, and when was the last time you went to the DMV and didn't have to stand in line? If it can't handle things this simple, how can we expect the government to handle all the complex nuances of the medical system? If any private business failed year after year to achieve its objectives and satisfy its customers, it would go out of business or be passed up by competitors
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haha... i decided to re-read this thread and this bit made me laugh,
and think to myself some one needs to run it nobody is at the moment...
 
I read the health care bill until I saw spots, basically I was looking for anything I could find to bash it. well I could only find about 2-0 pages of material i could bash with, everything else is Greek to me.
All I know is this: yea its gonna cost trillions in the long run, but by that time most people will be taxed to death anyway.
and since they axed the free public option, the total price tag dropped from a lot of trillions down to a few thousand trillions so now as the employer price goes up the city I work for will be dropping its health care, so this bill screws me, and everybody in the same financial boat with me
 
Wolfen that is because it has become a "Pass anything" and we will tweak it later and "fix" later issue...Because we need a victory situation. Okay pass it fine people don't regulate insurance and create a new cluster ++**? Right on they won! They passed a bill!

Now when have you known the Federal Goverment to be capable of fixing any damned thing?

Nightmare.
 
I dunno, give a bit of money to government in return for fair healthcare... give $6000 a year to faceless corporation that does everything it can to screw me out of my coverage... choices choices.

I don't like that the public option is gone. I don't like it one bit. But I'm not convinced he's arsed this up... yet.

And the first conservative I hear complain that Obama should have pushed for the public option will have his or her reproductive organs removed with a spoon.
 
03USMC said:
Wolfen that is because it has become a "Pass anything" and we will tweak it later and "fix" later issue...Because we need a victory situation. Okay pass it fine people don't regulate insurance and create a new cluster ++**? Right on they won! They passed a bill!

Now when have you known the Federal Goverment to be capable of fixing any damned thing?

Nightmare.
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Thats why I still stand by my original suggestion to the govt, I emailed it to the White House, here's what I said,
Dear Mr Obama, I like that you are trying to fix out Nations Health care, but you are attacking the wrong people, the health care sis fine, what you need to reform is the Insurance companies that run this country's health care.

To date I have not received even a acknowledgment that my email was even received. But I still stand by that comment.

03 I have never seen the US Govt fix anything, I have however seen enough money dumped on top of a problem to make it change under the next administration that comes in power.
The Other Guy said:
I dunno, give a bit of money to government in return for fair healthcare... give $6000 a year to faceless corporation that does everything it can to screw me out of my coverage... choices choices.

I don't like that the public option is gone. I don't like it one bit. But I'm not convinced he's arsed this up... yet.

And the first conservative I hear complain that Obama should have pushed for the public option will have his or her reproductive organs removed with a spoon.
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thank god I'm not a conservative, cause the public option would have made my taxes go up so much I would have wound up on it, but at least I would have had insurance of some kind, now with that option gone I still will see my taxes go up and I will STILL probably lose my insurance.

Worst case scenario I lose my insurance and get a fine for not having insurance, and maybe arrested for child neglect when my kids can't go to a doctor.

Best case scenario, the city keeps provideing insurance for families, and my paycheck only gets cut inhave, so I will will lose the tv, internet, power and other essential utilities, but I won't end up homeless or in jail for a lack of insurance.

I Love this great Nation to the point of tears, but right now I am scared to death I'll lose either my job or my families insurance.
 
The part that really baffles me is that the average guy who makes a half decent wage needs to fork out 40% in taxes (more or less).
For that sort of tax rate, America seems to have very poor visible returns. Where is all this money going?
 
the_13th_redneck said:
The part that really baffles me is that the average guy who makes a half decent wage needs to fork out 40% in taxes (more or less).
For that sort of tax rate, America seems to have very poor visible returns. Where is all this money going?
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Into a big fat wallet in the pocket of a big fat rich bastard who laughs at the poor people who lose everything, and doesn't give a rats ass weather or not we all die from a lack of health care, while he takes his next corporate vacation with our tax money,
I really hope the dam insurance companies are happy, they got what they wanted.
Obama wanted health care reform, ......well what our govt is giving us is a death sentence.
 
The Other Guy said:
I dunno, give a bit of money to government in return for fair healthcare... give $6000 a year to faceless corporation that does everything it can to screw me out of my coverage... choices choices.

I don't like that the public option is gone. I don't like it one bit. But I'm not convinced he's arsed this up... yet.

And the first conservative I hear complain that Obama should have pushed for the public option will have his or her reproductive organs removed with a spoon.
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So, let me get this all straight.

1. No public option

2. Everyone required to have Health insurance though private companies."give $6000 a year to faceless corporation that does everything it can to screw me out of my coverage..."

3. Failure to have or maintain Heath insurance and you will be fined by the government.

Please, some liberal with all their vast knowledge please explain to me the following.
What does the Federal government base its ability to make citizens buy a private commercial product like health insurance on?

Looks like the big Corporate Health insurance companies have been handed the Golden Goose.(Sounds like something the Democrats would accuse the big business Republicans of wanting).
 
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Chukpike said:
What does the Federal government base its ability to make citizens buy a private commercial product like health insurance on?

Looks like the big Corporate Health insurance companies have been handed the Golden Goose.(Sounds like something the Democrats would accuse the big business Republicans of wanting).
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Well they got what they asked for. They could have shut out the GOP and just done what they wanted, but they chose to listen to what the GOP had to say and incorporated their opinions in the plan. So, while it may be great or terrible it is the compromised plan our elected representatives came up with.
 
Yeah that Wall Street was certainly efficient in bankrupting the world and then socialising the losses from the dreaded government. The lie of government bad market good has been repeated so many times it is accepted as a fact. Every other developed country manages to have universal medical care that includes all citizens and does not bankrupt people with medical bills. How is it efficient that the US pays almost double in its healthcare through insurance companies than other countries yet can't cover 30 million citizens and bankrupts and refuses payment to countless more. But don't let the facts get in the way to a right wing idealistic rant.
 
It's Bush's fault........

Or it could be that the left was just so jazzed to pass a bill...any bill that they sold their souls....

Like they love to say the right does and pretty much became what they hate.

The libs in bed with faceless insurance companies....if it wasn't so freakin sad it would be funny.

Clue : the socialism your after dosen't benefit private industry. Thats the antithesis of Socialism you Freakin dolts.....all that money on higher education wasted.

Clue: Mandating the purchase of any service is most likely Unconstitutional and illeagal..we shall see.

Clue: when even the huffpo says yer screwed ....yer screwed thats yer pravda.
 
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The Other Guy said:
Well they got what they asked for. They could have shut out the GOP and just done what they wanted, but they chose to listen to what the GOP had to say and incorporated their opinions in the plan. So, while it may be great or terrible it is the compromised plan our elected representatives came up with.
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What planet are you from? The senate vote was strictly on party lines. What compromise? As nasty as you think the Republicans are this was passed by Democrats without a Republican vote.

"The vote was 60-39, strictly along party lines, one day after Democrats succeeded in crushing a filibuster by Republicans eager -- yet unable -- to inflict a year-end political defeat on the White House."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...te_oks_health_care_bill_in_victory_for_obama/

I find it hilarious you would try and spin this into a compromise.:-D

Well, Merry Christmas anyway. Since it is obvious you live in a fantasy land and need to get back to Santa.:santa:
 
I heard a rumor that if you don't have insurance and you don't buy into this new scheme you can go to jail??
 
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