Gun Control At Work in Australia.. - Page 2




 
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Gun Control At Work in Australia..
 
June 24th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Gun Control At Work in Australia..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm
Australia has less people.... so your crime numbers will be less then the USA. You have to look at it this way. How many murders per 100,000 people.
How about per 1000 people?

Just did a quick search and here are the figures for 1998-2000, couldn't find anything newer from a reputable source but you are more than welcome to look for yourself.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita

USA - 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
Australia - 0.00293678 per 1,000 people
New Zealand - 0.00173482 per 1,000 people

This would indicate that the USAs firearms related murder rate was 10 times that of Australia but if you can find newer figures I am sure we would all like to see them.
June 24th, 2007  
Infern0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm
Australia has less people.... so your crime numbers will be less then the USA. You have to look at it this way. How many murders per 100,000 people.

ok...do it per capita then


trust me, it's not the population that causes the differences, it's the level of availability of high power weaponry and the licensing (or lack thereof)


and it's not about freedom, or governmental control...it's about responsibility. IMHO licensing prevents a large proportion of loons from getting guns
June 24th, 2007  
Rob Henderson
 
 
The point still remains that if a criminal wants to get his hands on something, he will break the law to do it...That's why they're considered CRIMINALS in the first place. No matter how strict gun control becomes, no matter what efforts are made to prevent it, the sheer size of the United States prevents the government from policing every single firearm in existence. The government cannot account for every handgun, every rifle, every shotgun ever...It just can't be done. Now, if the United States were a bit smaller...Perhaps we could...Maybe if we were the size of...Texas, with guards on every inch of our border, with the ability to control everything in and out, maybe. Then again, there are always home-made...So, nope, still no good. All gun control laws do is stop those who follow those laws.
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Gun Control At Work in Australia..
June 24th, 2007  
major liability
 
 
Nah, if we were the size of Texas we'd have a commensurately lower population as well, don't you think?

If we have more killings in America, I'd wager it's because of our culture, not our firearms.
June 25th, 2007  
Rob Henderson
 
 
*exasperated sigh* My point was that because of America's size and population, it makes policing gun control impossible...
June 25th, 2007  
WNxRogue
 
 
I think that Henderson is having an issue understanding the diffrent between banning all guns and gun control. Gun Control is the means of - get this- controlling the amount of guns available. That is not the same as banning all guns. His point about criminals still being able to get guns is true, but really makes no diffrence. A determined criminal could, theoretically, break into the Pentagon and steal classified documents. Does that mean that the pentagon needs more security? Not neccessarily. Armed criminals will always cause issues. The fact that they can arm themselves is never going to end. The only thing we can do is limit the amount of weapons they can get through whatever means we have. That is where gun "Control" comes into play. We arent saying ban all guns, we are saying make sure the ones we can control are givin to responsible people.
June 25th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
I'm sure that culture has a lot to do with it.

One thing that I have noticed in Australia, is that as American culture has become better known here, our population's acceptance of poor firearms handling and usage has skyrocketed.

To me, and this is merely a personal observation, the USA seems to be very much against moving too far away from the mentality of the wild west. Movies since 1965-70 haven't helped either, with their steady progression to ever greater levels of violence and gore, with excessive glorification of the cult of the gun.

Yeah,.... I know, but that's not real. No, it's not, but it is still where some of our more easily led idiots get their ideas from. Remember the upsurge in copycat crimes after such films as "Bonnie and Clyde"?

If movies and games etc., stopped glorifying violence and guns we may have a chance to return to some sanity, but it would take a generation.

I'm dead against Gun Control as it is presently enforced in Australia, it only inconveniences the honest citizen.

Quote:
*exasperated sigh* My point was that because of America's size and population, it makes policing gun control impossible...
Bullsh1t! More population = more police and enforcers. The ratio is the same. As for physical size, Australia is 7/8 the size of the USA and it doesn't effect us.
June 25th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I'm sure that culture has a lot to do with it.

One thing that I have noticed in Australia, is that as American culture has become better known here, our population's acceptance of poor firearms handling and usage has skyrocketed.

To me, and this is merely a personal observation, the USA seems to be very much against moving too far away from the mentality of the wild west. Movies since 1965-70 haven't helped either, with their steady progression to ever greater levels of violence and gore, with excessive glorification of the cult of the gun.

Yeah,.... I know, but that's not real. No, it's not, but it is still where some of our more easily led idiots get their ideas from. Remember the upsurge in copycat crimes after such films as "Bonnie and Clyde"?

If movies and games etc., stopped glorifying violence and guns we may have a chance to return to some sanity, but it would take a generation.

I'm dead against Gun Control as it is presently enforced in Australia, it only inconveniences the honest citizen.

Bullsh1t! More population = more police and enforcers. The ratio is the same. As for physical size, Australia is 7/8 the size of the USA and it doesn't effect us.

You know what's funny in the United States of America?... well there are many funny things here; like one can find that they are old enough to Die in Iraq while wearing a United States Military Uniform, fighting in a War, but that same person would not be old enough to drink in the United States of America if they are under 21 years old.

But, now about Guns and Gun Safety...... I think it is funny that one needs a Drivers License to operate a Motor Vehicle in the United States of America, yet one just walks in and buys a Firearm and the Ammo, and that's it.

There is no Test, there is no Studying, there is nothing like that.

Gun Safety is not something which is taught in Public Schools here, well unless the Gun is another word for the *****, and the Ammo is Sperm.... then it is taught, and taught quite often in some places around the Nation.

I believe since the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is in the Constitution that there needs to be Mandatory Training in School, like there are Social Studies and POD classes in School to at least help those in School to get ready for the monumental task of voting..... I believe the Schools should teach how to safely bear Arms, and, if one cannot pass, one does not get out of School, since the Right to Keep and Bear is a Constitutionally Protected Right.
If one is still in School at 18, and has not passed the Course, then one would not be granted said Right until they do pass the Course, and out of School.
Many are out of School at 17 though, and those who will be 18 and still in School should plan on taking the Courses early and often, to get them out of the way, just in case they need extra work on Gun Safety to get out of School.

Of course, I also believe that all those who wish to stay Citizens of the United States of America, and are Physically and Mentally able, should be Drafted into the Military and trained up as soon as they are out of High School.... and put into the Reserves and National Guard.
Firearm Safety learned while in School will come in handy in the Military.

And, I believe that anyone old enough to be Deployed into a Combat Zone should be old enough to Legally purchase and consume an Alcoholic Beverage in the United States of America.
June 25th, 2007  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue
I think that Henderson is having an issue understanding the diffrent between banning all guns and gun control. Gun Control is the means of - get this- controlling the amount of guns available. That is not the same as banning all guns. His point about criminals still being able to get guns is true, but really makes no diffrence. A determined criminal could, theoretically, break into the Pentagon and steal classified documents. Does that mean that the pentagon needs more security? Not neccessarily. Armed criminals will always cause issues. The fact that they can arm themselves is never going to end. The only thing we can do is limit the amount of weapons they can get through whatever means we have. That is where gun "Control" comes into play. We arent saying ban all guns, we are saying make sure the ones we can control are givin to responsible people.
Ok, say we do make sure the ones we control are given to responsible people...What about the ones we CAN'T? The ones that are given to the Cho Seung-Hui's and the Thomas Hamilton's and the Evan Ramsey's and the Eric Harris's and the Dylan Klebold's...What about them?


Bottom line...There is no possible way to get rid of guns given to crazy people. At all. Impossible feat. Therefore, gun control only hurts those who follow it.
June 25th, 2007  
major liability
 
 
Gator I disagree with ya on a few points there. Gun education should only be a requirement if you're - get this - actually going to buy a firearm. And the draft is a desperate measure, everyone knows draftees are far lower quality soldiers than volunteers. Maybe if they are put to work in the States or in a support role mandatory service would be useful, but not for fighting.
 


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