This is getting out of hand. - Page 11




 
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This is getting out of hand.
 
April 19th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
This is getting out of hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Very true however we do blame the shooter and we license drivers so they know their responsibilities therefore there is no reason to blame the car (it being an inanimate also helps there).
What we or rather the Americans need to do is to establish a system so the can use the 2nd A and limit the access to firearms for the few (in the US they are many) the 2nd A cannot be for all. I have been thinking of two ways; the first is to have a psychologist evaluate every gun owner and continue to do so over the space of time. Then the storage or firearms in people homes, perhaps more strict regulations about that, and we haven't touched the 2nd A.
April 19th, 2012  
Ted
 
 
Hasn't this issue been addressed before? I am pretty sure I have seen the "tool-theory" before. Sure a gun can be seen as a tool, like a car, screwdriver or a shovel. The only difference being that a gun is designed to kill where all the other tools serve a different purpose. Point the thing at someone/ something pull the trigger and you have your dinner.
And there is a large portion of society that can own guns without killing humans and sometimes even animals. But in general you get the society you deserve. If lonely kids or disillusioned adults start random shooting, talking about allowing guns is like bringing mustard when dinner is already eaten. The guns aren't the problem, they onlly aggravate a much bigger issue nobody seems willing to tackle. It might take some extra time you don't get paid for which is not on the list of our God-given rights.
April 19th, 2012  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Very true however we do blame the shooter and we license drivers so they know their responsibilities therefore there is no reason to blame the car (it being an inanimate also helps there).
The gun is an inanimate object, yet some areas destroy guns used in crimes. Read somewhere that back in Centuries past horses were hung in England for kicking people to death, that would be unthinkable today to put a horse down, but it does have a brain, vs the inanimate gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
What we or rather the Americans need to do is to establish a system so the can use the 2nd A and limit the access to firearms for the few (in the US they are many) the 2nd A cannot be for all. I have been thinking of two ways; the first is to have a psychologist evaluate every gun owner and continue to do so over the space of time. Then the storage or firearms in people homes, perhaps more strict regulations about that, and we haven't touched the 2nd A.
It's the Right of THE PEOPLE to keep & bear arms, not the few or the Elite of Society. When your home is beinmg invaded responce time is extremely short. storage laws would be fine in a crime free world, not so much in the real world.
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This is getting out of hand.
April 19th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
It's the Right of THE PEOPLE to keep & bear arms, not the few or the Elite of Society. When your home is beinmg invaded responce time is extremely short. storage laws would be fine in a crime free world, not so much in the real world.

That is the point I like to bring up... It is really difficult to actually keep guns from going to the "bad guys" when so many people have it. A lot of people that do crimes with guns are not necessarily nutcases and will not be found by psychologist (only the killing spree ones). What is the sense in psychological evaluations anyways when someone can get it on the black market easily? How can you actually avoid giving the guns to those who do not qualify when it is so easy to get a gun?

The only way I can see that happening is a major overhaul in the American education system or some secondary form of education and a dramatic decrease in poverty. It is true that most who own guns do not commit crimes with those guns, but you can not ignore that guns make it easier for those who will become a criminal.

I am confused about where majority of Americans limit their "god-given rights".
April 19th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
I am confused about where majority of Americans limit their "god-given rights".
See eventually you will reach the same conclusion most of us did ages ago, as a nation you will not solve the problem of people shooting people because you don't want to, in the end the only response acceptable to a reasonably sized group of people is to put more guns into circulation which oddly enough is what is causing the problem.

Basically as a nation nothing will change until you break the "cult of the firearm" that exists there.

So a few weeks maybe a couple of months from now there will be another mass shooting and there will be another post about how terrible it is and what can be done and we will have this conversation all over again with the same responses.

I will adopt a more Kiwi approach, I live a relatively sane country with relatively sane laws about firearms I really no longer care how often you lot try and kill each other as long as you do not try and export ideas.
April 19th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
So a few weeks maybe a couple of months from now there will be another mass shooting and there will be another post about how terrible it is and what can be done and we will have this conversation all over again with the same responses.
Like clockwork it seems,

However count me out on the next thread, as am about to retire from this topic entirely upon the next tidal wave or media coverage to hit the headlines.

I know the source now, just look around at outside at all the bewildered people with necks crained towards their News Aps and Television sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB

I really no longer care how often you lot try and kill each other as long as you do not try and export ideas.
Guilty as charged.

Name one major of civilization that has not tried to impress their ideology on another group of people in human history.

Thousand years from now American's ideological approach may just be another post-it-note in said history.
April 20th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Guilty as charged.

Name one major of civilization that has not tried to impress their ideology on another group of people in human history.

Thousand years from now American's ideological approach may just be another post-it-note in said history.

lol there is no nation that has not tried to impress their ideals on another group.
May 1st, 2012  
-- Dusty
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
What we or rather the Americans need to do is to establish a system so the can use the 2nd A and limit the access to firearms for the few (in the US they are many) the 2nd A cannot be for all. I have been thinking of two ways; the first is to have a psychologist evaluate every gun owner and continue to do so over the space of time. Then the storage or firearms in people homes, perhaps more strict regulations about that, and we haven't touched the 2nd A.
How does the 2nd A in the US affect you?

You havn't seen what is happening here. They started regulating the RKBA, and now they are regulating freedom of speech, freedom of religion, they can invade anyone home without a warrant and without cause and not get in trouble.... that may be just fine for you in your country, but that is beyond what is acceptable here.
May 1st, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by -- Dusty
How does the 2nd A in the US affect you?

You havn't seen what is happening here. They started regulating the RKBA, and now they are regulating freedom of speech, freedom of religion, they can invade anyone home without a warrant and without cause and not get in trouble.... that may be just fine for you in your country, but that is beyond what is acceptable here.
I don't think it is correct to say because it do not affect him, he should not care. If this was so, shouldn't we butt out of Syria, China, etcs. business?


Can you tell me what state allows police to "invade anyone's home without a warrant"? I do not recall any. I know you can be stopped by police officers based on suspicion.

I believe in freedom, but you must realize there will be consequences or rewards for one's actions. One can not simply say anything they want and expect no ill-results. Too much freedom and people become undisciplined, this is a fact. As far as I know freedom of speech has always been regulated since media.

I would also like to know what do you mean regulating freedom of religion? Do you mean national recognition of said religion? Do you mean not being able to pray in class or something?
May 1st, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
I would also like to know what do you mean regulating freedom of religion? Do you mean national recognition of said religion? Do you mean not being able to pray in class or something?
I am also curious of how this got thrown in with this topic as well.

For any discussion of religon in conjunction with firearms never really ends well.
 


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