Fury - Page 4




 
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January 22nd, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I like Clint Eastwood, but I don't like Chris Kyle. I have a feeling that the real Kyle doesn't come through in the movie...otherwise I'm not sure it would have done so well at the Box office.

I'll have to see for myself this weekend.
Can you elaborate further about why you don't like him?

I don't know much about him. I haven't seen the movie American Sniper yet, I have seen Fury, though. I found it quite entertaining, a war movie among other movies. There were intense scenes in it, I didn't like the ending.
January 22nd, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Can you elaborate further about why you don't like him?

I don't know much about him. I haven't seen the movie American Sniper yet, I have seen Fury, though. I found it quite entertaining, a war movie among other movies. There were intense scenes in it, I didn't like the ending.

This is the tip of the iceberg...

http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/...-of-chris-kyle
January 23rd, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Something just occurred to me. You are a war veteran from Iraq, how do you react when you are watching a movie depicting the war in Iraq and even so the war in Afghanistan?

I have read how the D-Day veterans reacted to "Saving Private Ryan" when they saw it.

If you don't want to answer this, I don't blame you.
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January 23rd, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Something just occurred to me. You are a war veteran from Iraq, how do you react when you are watching a movie depicting the war in Iraq and even so the war in Afghanistan?

I have read how the D-Day veterans reacted to "Saving Private Ryan" when they saw it.

If you don't want to answer this, I don't blame you.

I haven't seen this movie yet so I will reserve judgement for then.

As for other movies, sometimes they hit close to home and I spend a while afterwards having to go over my thoughts. Honestly, in my opinion, there hasn't been too many movies made about the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan that I think "got it right". However, there are a few movies that I think came close to getting a glimpse of a combat veterans predicament.

The scene in flags of our fathers where the actor portraying Ira Hayes is in the hotel room talking with the NCO about how he misses his buddies and how he feels like a POS for not being on the line with them...that hit pretty close to home for me.

In the series "The Pacific" where John Basilone spends hours just swinging at golf balls to get away from having to live up to peoples expectations or thinking about the war, that was a scene that I really identified with.

Born on the Fourth of July has a bunch of scenes that I identify with as combat veteran...trying to make sense of the madness, make sense of the sacrifice, and make sense of the world one returns to...I completely understand those scenes as well.

Even though I'm not a fan of the movie "Platoon" the scene where they find one of their soldiers mutilated bodies and then go to the near by village to burn it down...Even though I don't condone what they did in the movie, I completely understand the frustration and absolute hate that fills your mind and heart when you see something so terrible and exasperating as what the movie portrayed. My mind has gone dark at times while I was in combat and I am lucky that I had some very cool heads with me on some of the incidents I went through during some of my darker days while I was deployed...I'm not sure that if I was left to my own devices if I could have kept that hate, fear, and frustration from overcoming me and killing people that didn't deserve to die...

Even as I speak of these things on here I find myself having to pause and refocus because if I think too hard, my mind can wander back to a place that I have tried very hard to forget about. I don't know...I hope I answered your question...
January 24th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I haven't seen this movie yet so I will reserve judgement for then.

As for other movies, sometimes they hit close to home and I spend a while afterwards having to go over my thoughts. Honestly, in my opinion, there hasn't been too many movies made about the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan that I think "got it right". However, there are a few movies that I think came close to getting a glimpse of a combat veterans predicament.

The scene in flags of our fathers where the actor portraying Ira Hayes is in the hotel room talking with the NCO about how he misses his buddies and how he feels like a POS for not being on the line with them...that hit pretty close to home for me.

In the series "The Pacific" where John Basilone spends hours just swinging at golf balls to get away from having to live up to peoples expectations or thinking about the war, that was a scene that I really identified with.

Born on the Fourth of July has a bunch of scenes that I identify with as combat veteran...trying to make sense of the madness, make sense of the sacrifice, and make sense of the world one returns to...I completely understand those scenes as well.

Even though I'm not a fan of the movie "Platoon" the scene where they find one of their soldiers mutilated bodies and then go to the near by village to burn it down...Even though I don't condone what they did in the movie, I completely understand the frustration and absolute hate that fills your mind and heart when you see something so terrible and exasperating as what the movie portrayed. My mind has gone dark at times while I was in combat and I am lucky that I had some very cool heads with me on some of the incidents I went through during some of my darker days while I was deployed...I'm not sure that if I was left to my own devices if I could have kept that hate, fear, and frustration from overcoming me and killing people that didn't deserve to die...

Even as I speak of these things on here I find myself having to pause and refocus because if I think too hard, my mind can wander back to a place that I have tried very hard to forget about. I don't know...I hope I answered your question...
Thank you, Brinktk.

Do you think it is good for you to see the American Sniper? You don't need to see war movies. I assume you see them in your dreams. Maybe it is better to watch something with your family and get a laugh or two instead.

I am sorry if I caused things to emerge again with my question.
January 24th, 2015  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Thank you, Brinktk.

Do you think it is good for you to see the American Sniper? You don't need to see war movies. I assume you see them in your dreams. Maybe it is better to watch something with your family and get a laugh or two instead.

I am sorry if I caused things to emerge again with my question.

It is quite all right, no worries.

I think I just keep hoping I'm going to see one that really encapsulates a way to express what I can't seem to convey in words. Some come close, BoB, The Pacific, We Were Soldiers, to name a few. I can identify with those movies because they hold a more powerful message in my opinion than most movies of the genre. As far as my war is concerned...I'm still waiting. Maybe I'll never get there...I am very critical about serious modern movies depicting soldiers from my generation. I assume it is the same for most vets I guess...I don't know.
January 24th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
I completely understand the frustration and absolute hate that fills your mind and heart when you see something so terrible and exasperating as what the movie portrayed. My mind has gone dark at times while I was in combat and I am lucky that I had some very cool heads with me on some of the incidents I went through during some of my darker days while I was deployed...I'm not sure that if I was left to my own devices if I could have kept that hate, fear, and frustration from overcoming me and killing people that didn't deserve to die...
I may be idealizing our countries role when I think of the performance and conduct of our armed forces brinkth. I believe in general we (the US) tended to fight-support what was right in our 20th century conflicts. Certainly in WW2 despite the bombing and shelling of civilians of cities by Allied forces we most defiantly fought forces that were the epitome of darkness and madness, slaughtering millions. In Korea we freed South Korea from the Iron grip of the north. In Vietnam things became a bit more blurred since we supported a US installed dictator. But I still believe that the Viet Kong and NVA were harder on the villagers than we were. In Iraq and Afghanistan we tried to minimize civilian casualties when the other side(s) often purposely targeted civilians.
We weren’t perfect. In WW2 we shot many SS that surrendered out of hand as we did almost all Japanese. In Vietnam many villagers were killed because the enemy hid or forced the villagers to hide them making it hard for the US to identify the foe until they ambushed our troops. But we have avoiding lowered ourselves to the level of the enemy’s that we have fought. Be it Germans, Japanese, N Koreans, NVA + Viet Kong, Iraqi Insurgents, Taliban, Al-Qaeda. Is this a realistic outlook?
January 25th, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
Both for troops serving in the conflict and local civilians caught in the crossfire armed conflict produces some of the most difficult and ugly situations in human existence.

As for my country's handling of most of them I feel there is little more anybody could have done to minimize the impacts of fighting. Especially from a standpoint on civilian losses. And this improved more so over the years.

Allowing a war to destroy a population leads to suffering that continues long after the shooting stops.

Right now I feel we are struggling to find out what to do with that step two.

Not many films out there about that.


As for what we deem is "right" is in the eye of the beholder, there are many American values that are not cherished in the Middle East for example and may not be seen as "right" by a local population we attempt to expose to them. Or more so often one population may just have a completely different way of doing something than our own.
January 25th, 2015  
JOC
 
 
I believe you are right here. In WW2 taking the European Theater into account the US fought much more of a no holds barred war “much of it in an urban environment”. If the Germans were holed up or barricaded themselves in civilian building, the buildings were shelled-bombed even if it contained French, Italian, Belgium or German civilians. We were fighting a terrible enemy that murdered civilians out of hand and had to be defeated at all cost. If we fought Germany with kit gloves we would have lost hands down. And as bad as our misdemeanors were (and these misdemeanors were approved at the highest levels in Washington and London) they were never to the same degree as that of the enemy. Many of the enemy (SS and Hitler Youth in particular were willing to die and kill noncombatants as matter of fact or just to set an example). The US solders didn’t desire to die for homeland and preferred not to kill civilians, but didn’t let the killing of civilians stop their push towards victory.
Since then we have not had to fight a war of such intensity and haven’t been in a war where the stakes were so high. Also at the time world opinion was on Hitler and his murdering of ~25 million innocents, as well as his setting ½ of Europe ablaze. One Allied commander British Bomber Harris came under some scrutiny, but he was no more guilty than American General Curtis LeMay in the Pacific war for killing > ½ million Japanese by bombing. Again the Japanese were also brutal and were responsible for ~ 10 million innocent civilian deaths. So People were willing to overlook the tragedy of the poor bombed out Japanese men, women and children.

Since Vietnam I believe the US has done everything possible to minimize civilian casualties and collateral damage. The weapons (missiles, smart bombs, drones) have become very accurate going a long ways towards prevents unnecessary damage. Allowing the military to pinpoint targets. With AWAK’s radar we can often pinpoint the targets themselves. Sure all this technology has some limitations but it’s a heck of a lot more discriminating then an IUD or a suicide bomber.
January 25th, 2015  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I believe you are right here. In WW2 taking the European Theater into account the US fought much more of a no holds barred war “much of it in an urban environment”. If the Germans were holed up or barricaded themselves in civilian building, the buildings were shelled-bombed even if it contained French, Italian, Belgium or German civilians. We were fighting a terrible enemy that murdered civilians out of hand and had to be defeated at all cost. If we fought Germany with kit gloves we would have lost hands down. And as bad as our misdemeanors were (and these misdemeanors were approved at the highest levels in Washington and London) they were never to the same degree as that of the enemy. Many of the enemy (SS and Hitler Youth in particular were willing to die and kill noncombatants as matter of fact or just to set an example). The US solders didn’t desire to die for homeland and preferred not to kill civilians, but didn’t let the killing of civilians stop their push towards victory.
Since then we have not had to fight a war of such intensity and haven’t been in a war where the stakes were so high. Also at the time world opinion was on Hitler and his murdering of ~25 million innocents, as well as his setting ½ of Europe ablaze. One Allied commander British Bomber Harris came under some scrutiny, but he was no more guilty than American General Curtis LeMay in the Pacific war for killing > ½ million Japanese by bombing. Again the Japanese were also brutal and were responsible for ~ 10 million innocent civilian deaths. So People were willing to overlook the tragedy of the poor bombed out Japanese men, women and children.

Since Vietnam I believe the US has done everything possible to minimize civilian casualties and collateral damage. The weapons (missiles, smart bombs, drones) have become very accurate going a long ways towards prevents unnecessary damage. Allowing the military to pinpoint targets. With AWAK’s radar we can often pinpoint the targets themselves. Sure all this technology has some limitations but it’s a heck of a lot more discriminating then an IUD or a suicide bomber.

I know this sounds insane saying this but believe it or not since the early half of the 20th Century per capita of deaths via wars between any nation have been steadily decreasing with time.

Wars are increasingly more regional and employ less mainline equipment such as strategic aircraft and warships and are more small arms oriented. Even geographically are in smaller areas of conflict, sometimes such as in the wilds of Northern Pakistan or Gaza for example on in parts of a single country. It may not seem like it, but things are much more "peaceful" then they have been in a while.

Maybe with this trend we are on to something?
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/07/143285...n-modern-times
 


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