"FOBBITS/POGUES" - A question

mmarsh

Active member
I see a lot of these terms being thrown around by active service people and while I understand the definition of the words, I don't understand why FOBBITS and POGUES are so hated.

I understand that infantrymen and other front line units are more at personal risk than those that who never leave the base, but the fact remains is that all jobs, even the seeming most useless an unnecessary, contribute to the overall mission.

For example, A soldier on patrol might rely heavily on his GPS to do his job, but behind that GPS is a team of technicians making sure the satellite feed and its computer systems are working. If those technicians don't do their job, than the job of the soldiers/marines on patrol don't have a GPS and their job just got a whole lot more dangerous. Same for the armorers, the mechanics, the fry cooks and everyone else. There would be no military if there were not the support personnel.

My father was in Army counter-intelligence (aka a FOBBIT), but without people like him, enemy spies and sabateurs might reign chaos in the rear in a warzone. And yet people like him are now despised.

Nor is this anything new, In WWII, only a very few number of men actually served as fighting infantry (I believe it was 1 out of 10, but don't quote me on that). The rest were doing non-combat jobs.

As a civilian, I don't understand why there is such a lack of understanding of teamwork on this subject. Again, I understand that the guys on Patrol carry a greater risk. (And perhaps they should be extra compensated because their job is so hazardous). But the animosity to the others on the team (the military team) I don't understand. After all, a Quarterback cannot wins games all by himself, cant he?

The hard reality (which is why war is so tragic) is that like in chess, some pieces are simply more valuable than others. Now some of you probably are not going to like that analogy, but seriously do you expect the military to put hard to replace highly skilled specialists into jobs they may not survive in (such as going on patrol), when their are other people than can do the job?

That may seem like a very cold thing to say when it refers to human life, but it is in fact a reality. Nobody is going to put say...the Batallion medical staff on patrol. It takes far longer and more expensive to train a expert surgeon than an expert rifleman which is why the surgeons are kept safe in the rear.

This is meant as a honest question and NOT meant to be derogatory.
Anyway I was hoping someone might explain this...
 
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I think it comes down to this; we accept that support personnel have a job to do, but they don’t need a ****ing Mall of America in order to be able to do their job.
 
We understand their value and necessity more than anyone. The animosity comes from the the fact we are living in two different worlds. The Fobbits take a lot for granted...it's not their fault I'm sure, it's just that the guys who leave the sanctuary of the FOB rarely get the luxuries and "time" that the Fobbits get. They usually work regular hours and have regular schedules with regular sleep. Grunts don't have any of that and when we do, a lot of the time the Fobbits don't want to make exceptions to accommodate our long, crazy schedules. You have no idea...it's pretty bad when I get metal detectored walking out of the DFAC to make sure I don't take more than 2 energy drinks out of the DFAC. Or when I get yelled at for not having my pt belt on as soon as I step out of my vehicle when I've been out for 20 hours straight. We don't resent them because we take more risk then them...that's what I signed up for...we resent them because they fuk with us when we are among them. That is the problem...
 
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We, the US Military, haven't forced service on anyone for close to 40 years. That means that all service personnel have some choice in what they enlist to do. I was drafted, but later in my career had many options as to what job I did, the same applies to servicemen/women today. To be PO'd at POGUES and FOBBITS (these are new terms to me, we called them REMFS) seems to say you made a bad choice in your MOS, or at least you would prefer to be them instead of you.
 
We understand their value and necessity more than anyone. The animosity comes from the the fact we are living in two different worlds. The Fobbits take a lot for granted...it's not their fault I'm sure, it's just that the guys who leave the sanctuary of the FOB rarely get the luxuries and "time" that the Fobbits get. They usually work regular hours and have regular schedules with regular sleep. Grunts don't have any of that and when we do, a lot of the time the Fobbits don't want to make exceptions to accommodate our long, crazy schedules. You have no idea...it's pretty bad when I get metal detectored waling out of the DFAC to make sure I don't take more than 2 energy drinks out of the DFAC. Or when I get yelled at for not having my pt belt on as soon as I step out of my vehicle when I've been out for 20 hours straight. We don't resent them because we take more risk then them...that's what I signed up for...we resent them because they fuk with us when we are among them. That is the problem...
Amen, brother!

To be PO'd at POGUES and FOBBITS (these are new terms to me, we called them REMFS) seems to say you made a bad choice in your MOS, or at least you would prefer to be them instead of you.
You've never tried to be F***ed by these guys - have you?

Something good comes into the PX and the fobbits scarf it up first. It's rare for a commander to be astute enough to make sure some of these goodies are put aside for the guys working outside the wire. The troops doing most of the fighting are getting the least support when it comes to living conditions. Combat troops accept it when they know there is no choice (like in small temporary bases), but not when they see lazy commanders screwing them out of ignorance or indifference.

But the fobbits and all of their amenities never pissed me off that much. What got me is their hoarding things like socks, boots and uniform items from the people they're supposed to be supporting.

As far as nit picking at a soldier's uniform when you are in a combat zone, make sure they have the right equipment for the mission and let them do their jobs. When they are off, let them be. I think it's overkill to have some uniform nazi standing there ready to gig you on your uniform in order to justify his position and that person should be intelligent enough to know the difference between those that are fobbits and those that are not and maybe cut the guys a little slack.
 
Amen, brother!


You've never tried to be F***ed by these guys - have you?

Something good comes into the PX and the fobbits scarf it up first. It's rare for a commander to be astute enough to make sure some of these goodies are put aside for the guys working outside the wire. The troops doing most of the fighting are getting the least support when it comes to living conditions. Combat troops accept it when they know there is no choice (like in small temporary bases), but not when they see lazy commanders screwing them out of ignorance or indifference.

But the fobbits and all of their amenities never pissed me off that much. What got me is their hoarding things like socks, boots and uniform items from the people they're supposed to be supporting.

As far as nit picking at a soldier's uniform when you are in a combat zone, make sure they have the right equipment for the mission and let them do their jobs. When they are off, let them be. I think it's overkill to have some uniform nazi standing there ready to gig you on your uniform in order to justify his position and that person should be intelligent enough to know the difference between those that are fobbits and those that are not and maybe cut the guys a little slack.

You assume I was a support soldier, you don't know that I wasn't "...F***ed by these guys". Again you didn't have to choose Combat Arms and therefore be where you are, so I still submit that it is possible you are merely jealous of the support soldiers.
If the situation were reversed and you had first choice of PX items would you leave them for someone else?
 
You assume I was a support soldier, you don't know that I wasn't "...F***ed by these guys". Again you didn't have to choose Combat Arms and therefore be where you are, so I still submit that it is possible you are merely jealous of the support soldiers.
If the situation were reversed and you had first choice of PX items would you leave them for someone else?

I assume nothing. I asked you a question.

And don´t give me that crab about not having to choose Combat Arms. I have the best job in the world.

I don´t need all that crap as much as these guys apparently do. I´m trained to live by what I can scrape from the ground if it becomes necessary. What pisses me off is that there are some who are so egocentric that they can´t give a little of the benefits they have every day to those who do not have the same opportunities. If the situation were reversed I wouldn’t be an @sshole and keep everything to myself because I wasn’t brought up that way. You should know what effect it has on morale when you get back, tired, worn out, might have been in combat, had casualties and there is a kind soul who tells you - go over and get some cake and some cokes, we've saved a little for you.
 
I had a US MP trying to put a metal rod down the barrel of my weapon once.
He came within an inch of his life.

His boots were new, his kit were clean and smelled washed.
He ASSUMED everyone he met were the same type of soldier he was.
The sort of soldier that need their breach checked with a metal rod to avoid AD,s..

Stupidity seems to multiply inside that wire.
He was in for a surprize of a lifetime had not one of my US peers told him he best back down before he was put down..

There are FOBBITS doing an outstanding job, but as in many walks of life.. Your group are judged by the 10%ers.
Combatarms will be judged by the screw up butterbars, Fobbits WILL be judged by the fatasses chowing crap food 8 times a day and are too lazy to exercise OR do their job properly.

A fobbit that KNOWs he does his job imaculate will not have his little feelers hurt by me calling him a fobbit.
He IS the guy that WILL make sure a patrol that has been out for a week, two a month gets their due from the PX upon return.
He WILL sacrifice his time in the shower because he can get one tomorrow, his comrades might get bounced out again and not get that chance.
He WILL stand aside at the chowline because he ate a cooked meal yesterday, his mates didn´t.
He will work through the night at the motorpool when a patrol comes in with shot up vehicles and kit, because the kit is needed if his mates are to be able to get back out and win the war.
Hell he might even put on a brew for men that have not had an oppurtunity to light a rangerkitchen to make one of their instants for a week or two.


If he knows he has been slacking and cutting corners he will be biting back with all of his might..
Why, because he was called on his b******t and didn´t like what he saw in the mirror when starting to ask himself questions..

So no, I am not jealous.

Hell we are all working hard to win....Or are we?

KJ sends..
 
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I had a US MP trying to put a metal rod down the barrel of my weapon once.
He came within an inch of his life.

His boots were new, his kit were clean and smelled washed.
He ASSUMED everyone he met were the same type of soldier he was.
The sort of soldier that need their breach checked with a metal rod to avoid AD,s..

Stupidity seems to multiply inside that wire.
He was in for a surprize of a lifetime had not one of my US peers told him he best back down before he was put down..

There are FOBBITS doing an outstanding job, but as in many walks of life.. Your group are judged by the 10%ers.
Combatarms will be judged by the screw up butterbars, Fobbits WILL be judged by the fatasses chowing crap food 8 times a day and are too lazy to exercise OR do their job properly.

A fobbit that KNOWs he does his job imaculate will not have his little feelers hurt by me calling him a fobbit.
He IS the guy that WILL make sure a patrol that has been out for a week, two a month gets their due from the PX upon return.
He WILL sacrifice his time in the shower because he can get one tomorrow, his comrades might get bounced out again and not get that chance.
He WILL stand aside at the chowline because he ate a cooked meal yesterday, his mates didn´t.
He will work through the night at the motorpool when a patrol comes in with shot up vehicles and kit, because the kit is needed if his mates are to be able to get back out and win the war.
Hell he might even put on a brew for men that have not had an oppurtunity to light a rangerkitchen to make one of their instants for a week or two.


If he knows he has been slacking and cutting corners he will be biting back with all of his might..
Why, because he was called on his b******t and didn´t like what he saw in the mirror when starting to ask himself questions..

So no, I am not jealous.

Hell we are all working hard to win....Or are we?

KJ sends..

Bingo! You hit it on the head!

I'm not jealous at all, I'm elated to be combat arms. This is what I have been and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. It's just the little ankle biter bs stuff that is just over the top that kills me. It's the unwillingness of some to refuse working a half hour past their "shift" to get my trucks squared away for the missions I will be pulling within hours, requiring my soldiers to do their jobs for them in order for us to get the mission done. Then, we get bitched at for doing maintenance on our vehicles that is above our level...well...am I to go to my commander and tell him that I cannot go on mission today because the mechanics won't fix it until 1300 tomorrow? Or, do I make **** happen because the mission comes first? Or being turned down by the Air Force clinic to be MACE tested (TBI testing required if you are within the blast radius of an explosion) at 0300 in the morning because they don't want to provide aid or assistance to Army personnel unless it's for life, limb, or eyesight. Then having them call their O-6 commander to ***** about us coming there so late, waking them up, and then they in turn wake up my BN commander for the apparently unforgivable transgression of trying to do the protocols and right things as prescribed by them!...unless you're Army of course. They could have just told us to go to the clinic a klick and a half away to be tested by Army personnel and it would have saved the hassle. <<<Stuff like that is what pisses us off. It's unnecessary, uncalled for, and just plain dickish.
 
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The hard reality (which is why war is so tragic) is that like in chess, some pieces are simply more valuable than others. Now some of you probably are not going to like that analogy, but seriously do you expect the military to put hard to replace highly skilled specialists into jobs they may not survive in (such as going on patrol), when their are other people than can do the job?

That may seem like a very cold thing to say when it refers to human life, but it is in fact a reality. Nobody is going to put say...the Batallion medical staff on patrol. It takes far longer and more expensive to train a expert surgeon than an expert rifleman which is why the surgeons are kept safe in the rear.

This is meant as a honest question and NOT meant to be derogatory.
Anyway I was hoping someone might explain this...

Your logic is flawed.
I can tell you for certain that it cost more to train a SOF member and/or fighterpilot or rotorhead then a GPS technician.
Nine times out of ten he has a civilian education that doesn´t cost the military a thing except for the specialist course wich is a few weeks.

Both of the afformentioned trades work patrols.

The SOF patrol need not be discussed and the fighterjock aka zoomie will fly CAP or CAS.
Helicopter pilots are delivering people or ordonance to a specific point on the map they might even get shot at picking people up.

Obviously the military has no problem deploying either of these expensive assets into harms way..

KJ sends..
 
From what I’ve read of history around 3000 B.C.E. Menes of Egypt was the first identified warrior king - I’ll bet any amount that his grunts had the same complaints.

In the ‘60’s the US Air Force in Viet Nam had problems with their EM, they didn’t feel they should work long hours -even in a war.

In Viet Nam heroin came in small plastic vials, by far the greatest concentration of these vials I saw were along the perimeter of an Army Aviation Maint. Unit (for the rest of my career I didn’t feel right riding in a Helicopter).

In Korea I knew a Command Sgt. Major who got his rocks off making EM un-blouse their pants to see what color socks they were wearing.

There are *******s everywhere - the military has maybe more than its share.

“I offer neither pay nor quarters nor provisions; I offer hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country in his heart, and not his lips only, follow me.” Girseppe Gharibaldi
 
I won't dis pogues or remfs, but when you live on the pointy end of the spear, things are a lot different.

The closer to the flagpole you get, the more you got to put up with.

Dragging one's ass in from the bush or the desert and suddenly being subjected to a lot of chickenshite can be disturbing.

So much more now than in my day..

Quite frankly, if I had a kid in the military, I'd want im to have a nice cushy job that might prepare him for a civilian career,

I had a combat MOS and that's my feeling.

I also think the term "hatred" in this thread is a very poor choice of words.
Suggesting jealosy is short sighted as well.
 
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