Favorite Battle? - Page 3




 
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Boots
 
April 6th, 2004  
panzer
 
 
Anything on the Eastern Front WW2.......Kursk, Kravkov, Leningrad, Stalingrad............to many to list but you get the picture.
June 8th, 2004  
bush musketeer
 
 

Topic: fav battle


pozieres in ww 1 for the fact that anbody survived those conditions was amazing in itself. 30'000 casulaties in only 4 weeks.

frommelles in ww1 just from the storys of the great work the stetcherbearers did in that battle (5,533 died that night from the 5th div AIF)

and the battle of Isurava in august 1942 on the kakoda track(the fight that saved australia
June 9th, 2004  
soldierzhonor
 
 
Bastogne.

"From the German Commander to the American Commander, surrender or be destroyed"

"From the American Commander to the German Commander, Nuts!"

-This is what BG McAuliffe told the German commander for his surrender demands. The American 101st airborne were surrounded by 7 German divisions. What kept the Germans from overrunning them? Well it was this...the Germans wouldnt conduct a full out assault from all sides and kept assaulting in like a probe manner. Everytime they did though, the American artillery would shift and the probing division would get the full onslaught of the 101st Divarty. Also the heroics of the soldiers to fend off such a force was unimaginable...but they held and wouldnt give up.
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Boots
June 9th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Operation Sonnenwende:savior of berlin

this is what hapend

In January 1945, the Soviets launched the Vistula-Oder operation. This operation, to this day, remains one of the most powerful and awesome offensives ever launched in the history of warfare. The operation carried the Soviets from 3 bridgeheads over the Vistula to the Oder river and within relatively short distance from the capital of Hitler's Third Reich, Berlin.

As Zhukov's 1st Belorussian front advanced across central Poland, it also stretched the flanks of the Soviet advance, forcing Zhukov to give off more and more forces to defend against the German held Prussian and Pomeranian areas north of his forces. But, as the advance grew longer and longer, the harder it got for Zhukov to keep his fronts advance going. The flanks grew with every mile gained, the terrain favored the German defense, German reinforcements were steadily coming in, Zhukovs troops were exhausted after such a long advance without much rest, Zhukovs supply line was stretched to its limits, an unusual thaw set in turning many roads and ground to lakes of mud, and finally, German panzerfausts were taking a good number of Soviet tanks out of action.

Zhukov and Stalin both were suspicious with the possibility of a flank attack by the Germans ever since the begining of the Vistula-Oder offensive, but neither of them took any major steps to clear the threat the long flank exposed. If the Germans could put together a strong enough force, there was the possibility that Zhukov's spearheads over the Oder could be caught in a pincer movement taking place east of the Oder.

That is exactly what Gen. Heinz Guderian proposed the German Ostheer should do rather than launch another offensive into Hungary. Guderian planned on gathering strong reserves, penetrating the Soviet northern flank between Pyritz and Arnswalde, while southern forces would attack between Glogau and Guben, and eventually meeting up, thereby pinching off Zhukovs advanced formations of the Oder. Guderian hoped such an operation would increase the protection to Berlin, and other inner areas of the Reich, and give the Germans time to reach peace with the West and focus on the Soviets.

However, to pull such an act required a substantial number of reserves, something the Ostheer did not have to many of. To get the number of reserves wanted, Guderian proposed pulling out German forces from the Kurland pocket, Italy, the Balkans and Norway. Hitler, as he did with most of such calls, refused such actions with an outragous temper. Even though Hitler out right refused to do so, Guderian persued the issue of an evacuation from Kurland, which would free up a strong reserve force of good quality troops for the attack. Hitler became more and more outraged every time Guderian brought it up, and many staff officers to Hitler thought the Führer would either have a stroke, or strike Guderian physically.

Guderian wanted to use the 6th SS Panzer Army of Sepp Dietrich for the offensive, but Hitler instead sent it south to Hungary for another offensive. In early February, a small part of the 6th SS Panzer Army HQ was in 9th Army's sector. The commander of 6th SS Panzer, Sepp Dietrich, even started creating a general plan for an offensive from the Guben-Crossen area to meet up with the Arnswalde drive. The only problem was, his panzers were on railway cars heading to Hungary.

With not enough reserves to conduct a strong counter-attack, Guderian and Hitler settled on a more limited counter-attack from Army Group Vistula around the Stargard sector of the front. Guderian was making sure that at least one of the pincers was launched. This limited offensive was to be launched in the Arnswalde area with the objective being to defeat Soviet forces north of the Warthe river, and strengthening the German hold on Pomerania and the link to west Prussia. Guderian wanted the attack to begin as soon as possible for Guderian calculated, later to be supported by Gehlens figures, that the Soviets could increase their forces on the Oder by 4 divisions a day.

Even though at first Himmler, commander of Army Group Vistula(AGV) was entusiastic about launching the offensive, at a conference at the Chancellery on February 13, Himmler proposed postponing the attack until the small amount of fuel and ammunition left to be delivered arrived. Hitler agreed with Himmler, even in the face of Guderian claiming that the last day to attack would be on February 15. Any later, Guderian claimed, "it would no longer be practicable." Guderian later claimed that Hitler sided with Himmler so that Himmler's military incompetance would not show.

At the conference, on the same day, Guderian told Hitler that he wanted his principal OKH assistant, Wenck, to command the attack. The discussion between the two over who would command the operation lasted for hours going back and fourth, as can be seen here:

Guderian: "General Wenck must be attached to the National Leader's Staff, since other wise there can be no prospect of the attack succeeding."

Hitler: "The National Leader is man enough to carry out the attack on his own."

Guderian: "The National Leader has neither the requisit experience nor a sufficiently competent staff to control the attack single handed. The presence of General Wenck is therefore essential."

Hitler: "I don't permit you to tell me that the National Leader is incapable of performing his duties."

Guderian: "I must insist on the attachment of General Wenck to the army group staff so that he may ensure that the operations are competently carried out."

After hours of heated arguement, not debate, Hitler finally told Himmler General Wenck would arrive at his HQ that night to take charge of the attack. Many staff workers came up to Guderian after the conference and told him that they never saw Hitler erupt like that on anybody.

The operation was to be called Sonnenwende (Solstice), and the force who was set to make the attack was Steiner's 11. SS Panzer Armee. Despite its fierce name, 11 SS Panzer Armee was a rookie formation who barely had the ability to keep the command structure of the lower formations in working order. It was an army made out of what could be spared and put together. many divisions and foreign SS forces came from the Kurland pocket in Latvia. This scrounged up army was cut into 3rd SS Panzer and 10th SS korps. New units kept on being added as time went on. Some of the new units included:

-33rd SS Charlemagne Infantry division
-4th SS Polizei Panzer-Grenadier division
-Walloonie Brigade
-a small King Tiger kampfgruppen
-5th Tyrolean alpine division
-27th SS Langemark Infantry division
-and Führer-Grenadier Brigade

3rd Panzer Army was also putting in some forces into the attack.

Contrary to Guderians statement that surprise was the only available asset, Zhukov knew of a general German buildup near were the offensive was to open. Near the targeted sector, Zhukov had 2 Armies(the 2nd Guards Tank to the west and 61st to the east), plus 3 more(1st Guards Tank, 47th, and 3d Shock) nearby if necessary. The main effort of Sonnenwende would fall on the Soviet 61st Army. The objective of the offensive was to relieve the small German garrison in Arnswalde, then press on to the Küstrin-Landsberg area, pinching off Zhukov's 2nd Guards Tank Army and also part of the 61st and 5th Shock Armys.

On February 15, a small part of the German forces assembled started the attack, while the rest continued to prepare and gain supplies. From February 15 till late February 16, the German offensive achieved a lot of success and gained several miles. Te King Tiger tanks were destroying large amounts of Soviet tanks at long range, showing their supremacy at such distance. The Soviets were fighting with great courage, using large amounts of firepower, but could not stem the German tide. In Areas where the Germans could not break the Soviet defenses, it was simply bipassed.

In the early morning hours of February 17, Gen. Wenck, commander of the offensive, was seriously injured in a car accident. Himmler took control of the offensive, and the effects on the German force would soon be clear. On February 17, the Soviets threw Simonyak's 3rd Shock Army and Degrelle's reinforced 68th army against the offensive. Facing larger and increasing amounts of Soviet troops and tanks, the Germans were severaly slowed and halted in some areas. On February 18th, German forces managed to relieve the small garrison in Arnswalde that had been surrounded for more than 2 weeks.

The offensive, still facing large amounts of Soviet forces, and with panzers starting to run out of fuel and ammunition, was finally halted by Himmler, in order to 'regroup'. There was no withdrawal to the previous positions, the German forces just stood in their new vulnerable positions, letting the Soviets smack them back. Popov's 70th army obligued their request, launching an offensive with several other Soviet forces against the German positions on February 23. The German forces quickly retreated, leaving behind many panzers and AFVs that had empty gas tanks. 11 SS Panzer Army was then split up, with its forces being sent to reinforce German positions in front of Berlin, waiting for the expected renewed Soviet drive to Berlin.

Besides failing to pinch off a large Soviet force, the German command believed Sonnenwende had failed in its other important objective, to give Berlin more time. Some 9th Army reports calimed that they expected the Soviet offensive to Berlin to begin within a few days. In actuality, Sonnenwende had caused Zhukov to turn north with Rokossovsky and eliminate the German threat in Pomerania. Konev halted on the Neisse soon after, realizing the drive to Berlin was on hold. All Stavka plans for a drive on Berlin in February were scrapped.

While maybe not the only event that let Berlin stay under the Swastika for a few more weeks, Sonnenwende certainly played a large part in the job. While failing tactically, Sonnenwende achieved a major strategic success. The operation may not have been as large as Guderian originally hoped, but for such a small offensive, its effects cannot be understated.






This operation, to this day, remains one of the most powerful and awesome offensives ever launched in the history of warfare.
June 10th, 2004  
Damien435
 
 
I don't know the name of this battle but I will describe it and hopefully someone will know what I am talking about.

Back in the days of Ancient Greece, the Persians were invading, the Persian Emperor had an Army of ten thousand, the Greeks had only 300 Spartans, yet the Persians were defeated because they were forced to attack in Waves because the battle took place in a canyon and only a couple hundred Persians could attack at a time. That is probably the most single sided battle in the history of the world and yet the Spartans won.
June 10th, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I don't know the name of this battle but I will describe it and hopefully someone will know what I am talking about.

Back in the days of Ancient Greece, the Persians were invading, the Persian Emperor had an Army of ten thousand, the Greeks had only 300 Spartans, yet the Persians were defeated because they were forced to attack in Waves because the battle took place in a canyon and only a couple hundred Persians could attack at a time. That is probably the most single sided battle in the history of the world and yet the Spartans won.
The Battle of Thermopylae, 480BC. It was closer to 100,000 Persians and while King Leonidas did not defeat them, he, 300 of his bodyguards and around 7,000 Greeks held them off long enough for the Greek forces to mass. I believe they held out for about a week.

Battle of Salamis is a naval battle, happened shortly after, and an underdog win for the Spartans.
June 10th, 2004  
SHERMAN
 
 
Quote:
Spartans won.
Acctually, if im not mistaken, they were killed to the last man...They did stall the parsians and cause horrible casualties though...
June 10th, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherman105
Acctually, if im not mistaken, they were killed to the last man...They did stall the parsians and cause horrible casualties though...
Yes, every last one died.
June 10th, 2004  
Marksman
 
 
Spartans were very brave men,well they had Spartak
June 10th, 2004  
IrishWizard
 
Battle of Thermopylae and Carentan would be my favorite battles.