Is this explanation any better than the other discredited JFK conspiracies?

perseus

perseus

Active member
With the anniversary of the assassination of JFK approaching, is it time we threw away the conspiracy theories and accepted the obvious one that Oswald alone killed him?

A week ago I would have agreed, but after seeing a documentary using the latest ballistic evidence I'm not too sure. This builds on an old book on Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK which suggests that the killer bullet was from a hollow tipped round from an AR-15 rifle in the car behind, fired due a tragic accident. It doesn't exonerate Oswald in any way, since he certainly fired at least two of the bullets.

I don't know enough about ballistics, but perhaps others on here could offer a more considered opinion. Could the type of bullets Oswald fired through several bodies intact have also caused a head wound of the type displayed by the final shot on that tragic day, or would it be more consistent with a hollow tipped round from an AR15?
 
Not really surely there has been enough work on the JFK killing done by now to accept that Oswald killed him pretty much in the way reported.
 
I don't think Oswald did it. There were no traces of gunpowder residues on Oswald’s cheeks.

I bet on LBJ as the principal and Hoover covered it up. The Kennedy's didn't want LBJ to become vice president but were blackmailed by Hoover. The only one in the way to becoming a president was JFK. He had to go.

Hoover memo:

"The thing I am most concerned about, and SO IS Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so that WE can convince the pubic that Oswald is the real assassin."​
(HSCA, vol 3, pp 471-473. This memo was apparently prepared by Hoover at 4 pm.)



Memo from Nicholas deB. Katzenbach, Deputy Attorney General November 25, 1963

MEMORANDUM FOR MR. MOYERS

It is important that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public in a way which will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now.

1. The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial.

2. Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off, and we should have some basis for rebutting thought that this was a Communist conspiracy or (as the Iron Curtain press is saying) a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists. Unfortunately the facts on Oswald seem about too pat-- too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.). The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced.

3. The matter has been handled thus far with neither dignity nor conviction. Facts have been mixed with rumour and speculation. We can scarcely let the world see us totally in the image of the Dallas police when our President is murdered.

I think this objective may be satisfied by making public as soon as possible a complete and thorough FBI report on Oswald and the assassination. This may run into the difficulty of pointing to in- consistencies between this report and statements by Dallas police officials. But the reputation of the Bureau is such that it may do the whole job. The only other step would be the appointment of a Presidential Commission of unimpeachable personnel to review and examine the evidence and announce its conclusions. This has both advantages and disadvantages. It think it can await publication of the FBI report and public reaction to it here and abroad.

I think, however, that a statement that all the facts will be made public property in an orderly and responsible way should be made now. We need something to head off public speculation or Congressional hearings of the wrong sort.

Nicholas deB. Katzenbach

Deputy Attorney General​


When the police found a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle hidden behind some boxes near the open "assassination window," they also found a live round in the chamber. This photo depicts that 6.5 mm cartridge.

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So what's the significance of the cartridge picture? I understand three empty casings were found, two near to the window and one far away as if it had been taken out and discarded. The idea is that an empty case in the breech can form a seal against moisture, so only two bullets were fired from the window. There is so much evidence linking Oswald I doubt if he can be exonerated.

However, reports of a gunpowder smell from several witnesses in the cars behind can't be ignored, neither can the nature of the head wound or the trajectory of that bullet based on modern ballistic analysis. All this evidence suggests it came from the car behind. The only weapon around, was the AR15 which was being held by an agent unfamiliar with firearms. It would also explain how two wounds were inflicted in such a short space of time which experts found difficult to replicate.

Although I'm still not convinced this was the third final fatal shot, it does seem the most credible of the 'conspiracy' theories. It would have required everyone in the car behind to collaborate though, since surely such a weapon going off accidentally even in the commotion and noise would have been obvious?
 
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Raovat Well that's probably the most coherent explanation I've seen!

Just seen another programme where the scene is reproduced with a biometric model, and marksman from different angles, although when the car is still of course! This seems to rule out shots from anywhere but behind. However, the full metal jacket bullet seem to be sufficient to crack his head open. A soft tipped bullet from the side takes the head off completely and would probably have injured Jackie. I'm not sure how accurate the biometric model is of human muscle and skeleton tissue. It suggests that shots to the head from a high speed low calibre full metal jacket bullet always results in a considerable amount of the head disintegrating.
 
perseus said:
Raovat Well that's probably the most coherent explanation I've seen!

Just seen another programme where the scene is reproduced with a biometric model, and marksman from different angles, although when the car is still of course! This seems to rule out shots from anywhere but behind. However, the full metal jacket bullet seem to be sufficient to crack his head open. A soft tipped bullet from the side takes the head off completely and would probably have injured Jackie. I'm not sure how accurate the biometric model is of human muscle and skeleton tissue. It suggests that shots to the head from a high speed low calibre full metal jacket bullet always results in a considerable amount of the head disintegrating.
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The funny thing in all of this is that within days of the assassination the Russians had carried out their own investigation that in many respects was more accurate that the American one.

Their conclusion was that it was a lone gunman from behind, they proved that 3 shots in 6 seconds was possible with the rifle and pin pointed where the shooter was the only thing they could not prove was who the gunman was.

Roger Moore did quite a good documentary on it which includes the original Russian footage and reports.
 
If true, one thing from that investigation which shocks me is how destructive high velocity low calibre shots are to the tissue held in the skull cavity as opposed to elsewhere in the body. People operating in warzones should have a far better idea of this without resorting to models.

Also compare this with the wounds Michelle Gifford suffered from a higher calibre lower speed bullet, which generated far less damage.

The bullet passed through Giffords' head without crossing the midline of the brain, where the most critical injuries typically result.[3] Part of her skull was removed to avoid further damage to the brain from pressure caused by swelling.[3][54] Doctors who first treated Giffords said the bullet entered the back of her head and exited through the front of her skull, but physicians later concluded that it had traveled in the opposite direction.[56]
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This was a Glock pistol at point blank range 375 m/s (1,230 ft/s) not sure of the exact calibre but it seems to be in the range of 9-10mm.

The Kennedy murder weapon was a 6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38 carbine 2,000-2,400 ft/s muzzle velocity although presumably the velocity would have been slightly less due to the distance.
 
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I have shot several deer with 52 grain Sierra Match King HP .223 CAL ammo. Shot in the head, rarely will the bullets pass thru both sides, rather explode and be contained within the skull. Military FMJ is a different story. I would bet dollar to doughnuts LBJ had a hand in it. He had a deep hatred for the Kennedys . Still if the CIA or FBI had a hand in it, they might have selected a better weapon than the Circano. Not much to recommend it except for the cheap price.
 
on a lot of forums this still a hot topic today. but unless they come up with something conclusive to prove it was a conspiracy I think Ozwald did it.
years ago on a business trip to Dallas, my late father n law and i went to Dealey Plaza and visited the 6th floor museum. we stood next to the window he fired from. both of us agreed it didn't take no marksman to make the shoot. JFK's limo was not that far away. the Plaza is a time capsule. preserved today just like the day it happened.

http://www.jfk.org/
 
namvet said:
on a lot of forums this still a hot topic today. but unless they come up with something conclusive to prove it was a conspiracy I think Ozwald did it.
years ago on a business trip to Dallas, my late father n law and i went to Dealey Plaza and visited the 6th floor museum. we stood next to the window he fired from. both of us agreed it didn't take no marksman to make the shoot. JFK's limo was not that far away. the Plaza is a time capsule. preserved today just like the day it happened.

http://www.jfk.org/
Click to expand...

I agree I am absolutely convinced Oswald was the only shooter.

I was there in about 2004 and came to similar conclusions.
 
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