Drug legalization

Bacara

Bacara

Active member
I just wont to start a discussion, now i think all drugs should be legal for the following reasons
1. them being illegal causes immense violence, ex gangs, way more than the drugs would create.
2. its a victimless crime, no one but the person using is harmed, except while driving, drunk driving laws still apply
3. would save billions of dollars in the police funding and prisons, and we could tax the s@!$ out of them, maybe help our debt, not likely the government will find some way of wasting it. :confused:
i do not use any drugs, i dont smoke or drink, i just see the violence and my friends getting huge fines, and being put in juv
 
Bacara said:
I just wont to start a discussion, now i think all drugs should be legal for the following reasons
1. them being illegal causes immense violence, ex gangs, way more than the drugs would create.
2. its a victimless crime, no one but the person using is harmed, except while driving, drunk driving laws still apply
3. would save billions of dollars in the police funding and prisons, and we could tax the s@!$ out of them, maybe help our debt, not likely the government will find some way of wasting it. :confused:
i do not use any drugs, i dont smoke or drink, i just see the violence and my friends getting huge fines, and being put in juv
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1) Is an interesting argument and to some degree places like the Netherlands agree with the argument.

2) I disagree, how many families have been destroyed, children neglected etc. because mommy or daddy has a habit? It is far from a victimless crime.

3) Exacty how do you tax something that can be produced in the back garden?
Once again you also have the fall out from all the stoners that will have to be picked up by the police and various aid organisation anyway.

I can't honestly say I am ever going to be pro-legalisation of drugs.
 
1-Agree, the criminal element is created by the criminal usage.
2-Monty, the same was said about alcohol, and we all know how it went when we banned that here.
3-If they can handle Moonshiners, they can handle pot smokers.
 
The only thing I can really argue is point 2.

Yes, they tried to ban alcohol, and yes, it didn't work... But we still have regulations on it. (Regardless of how effective they actually are)
 
There are a lot of drugs already legal, its called medication!

But when it comes to illicit drugs, I think they should be kept illegal.

Cannabis though, I think that at least should be legal and to be regulated similarly to alcohol. Like, if you have too much pot you woulndnt be fit to drive a car...
 
I agree with legalization completely. Face it - as it is, if someone wants any drug they can probably get it unless they're completely socially isolated. I believe that the irresponsible fools who misuse drugs (by driving impaired for example) and get themselves and others hurt should be punished quite severely (I'm talking Singapore style), but that their actions should not mean blanket prohibition for responsible individuals who want to use in the safety of their own homes. It's the same reason I'm no fan of gun control - it punishes all Americans for the actions of the irresponsible idiots. I'd just like to see more personal accountability and less unenforceable bans that lead to violence (not that gangsters killing each other is any great loss, it's the cops and civilians in the middle I worry about). It would also be nice if that money went to the public good through taxes rather than to organized crime.

I have no illusion that these hard drugs are good things to have around, but the fact is the cat's out of the bag. Soon as you knock down one supplier another pops up because there's too much money in the industry. I'd prefer a rational policy rather than one that is, in my mind, akin to bailing water out of the Titanic with a bucket. Cannabis shouldn't even be a question - it's far less harmful than alcohol. I can't think of a single good reason to keep it banned. People say it's a gateway drug, but someone who tries it in the first place is already more open to trying psychoactive substances, so I doubt the statistics on that. Alcohol is the gateway drug - it's legal, so for most people it's the first recreational drug they're exposed to.
 
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Good points all around.
I don't think the hard drugs are a victimless crime like Monty said.
I think the difference with alcohol is that you can actually use it in moderation. You won't get an addition or get smashed by having one beer. It's a drug that can be taken and not abused and that's usually how it's used in most cases (as far as I know).
Most other drugs don't really seem to have that. It's either you're taking the thing or you're not taking the thing.

I think the 21 year old law with alcohol should change.
It's something you can learn to do in moderation and if you start young (age 12 or so) you'll have a higher chance of attaining alcohol responsibility. If you're 30 and you drink and get smashed like you're 21, you're just an idiot.
 
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Reason Magazine, Libertarian oriented, has published compelling pro legalization articles. On the other hand, seems like China went into a deep decline after losing the Opium Wars.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
I think the difference with alcohol is that you can actually use it in moderation. You won't get an addition or get smashed by having one beer. It's a drug that can be taken and not abused and that's usually how it's used in most cases (as far as I know).
Most other drugs don't really seem to have that. It's either you're taking the thing or you're not taking the thing.
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You HAVE to drink alcohol in moderation because if you don't you'll end up covered in vomit in an unfamiliar place, or dead for that matter. In order to overdose on pot you'd have to inject so much THC and cannabinol that water in the same quantity would be equally fatal. The same is true for most psychedelics - though with those you're liable to lose your mind with a dose like that.

The only drugs I'd consider extremely destructive to the point I'd much rather have them banned are crack, phencyclidine, methamphetamines and heroine. But as I said before, you can never achieve a total ban. These things are already illegal and I've seen people hurt by them. I knew someone who died due to heroine use. At least if they were legal they wouldn't be cut with things you find under the kitchen sink and you'd at least have some idea when somebody loses control and you need to intervene. Not when they start stealing money out of your pocketbook - by then it's too late.
 
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major liability said:
You HAVE to drink alcohol in moderation because if you don't you'll end up covered in vomit in an unfamiliar place, or dead for that matter. In order to overdose on pot you'd have to inject so much THC and cannabinol that water in the same quantity would be equally fatal. The same is true for most psychedelics - though with those you're liable to lose your mind with a dose like that.

The only drugs I'd consider extremely destructive to the point I'd much rather have them banned are crack, phencyclidine, methamphetamines and heroine. But as I said before, you can never achieve a total ban. These things are already illegal and I've seen people hurt by them. I knew someone who died due to heroine use. At least if they were legal they wouldn't be cut with things you find under the kitchen sink and you'd at least have some idea when somebody loses control and you need to intervene. Not when they start stealing money out of your pocketbook - by then it's too late.
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a guy in my school died of a herioin overdose.... RIP Ray
 
For folks so deeply into those hard drugs, I think it already is too late.

major liability said:
The only drugs I'd consider extremely destructive to the point I'd much rather have them banned are crack, phencyclidine, methamphetamines and heroine. But as I said before, you can never achieve a total ban. These things are already illegal and I've seen people hurt by them. I knew someone who died due to heroine use. At least if they were legal they wouldn't be cut with things you find under the kitchen sink and you'd at least have some idea when somebody loses control and you need to intervene. Not when they start stealing money out of your pocketbook - by then it's too late.
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I tell you one thing, if morphine was legal I'd never use it but I'd carry a dose with me at all times. Humanity finally has the cure for pain - I'd sure like to have it on me in case I get run over or something.
 
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Bet you change your mind right quick if you get hit by a car. :D Besides, nicotene is proven to be more addictive, and I've tried one cigarette without smoking another. Couldn't even finish the foul thing.
 
I probably would, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Like you said, though, Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, X, etc. should remain banned. Marijuana, on the other hand... toss a surgeon general's warning on it and put it next to the Marlboros.
 
Like you said, though, Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, X, etc. should remain banned. Marijuana, on the other hand... toss a surgeon general's warning on it and put it next to the Marlboros.
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What is wrong with ecstasy?
 
Wallabies said:
What is wrong with ecstasy?
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"What are its short-term effects?
Users report that Ecstasy produces intensely pleasurable effects – including an enhanced sense of self-confidence and energy. Effects include feelings of peacefulness, acceptance and empathy. Users say they experience feelings of closeness with others and a desire to touch others. Other effects can include involuntary teeth clenching, a loss of inhibitions, transfixion on sights and sounds, nausea, blurred vision, chills and/or sweating. Increases in heart rate and blood pressure, as well as seizures, are also possible. The stimulant effects of the drug enable users to dance for extended periods, which when combined with the hot crowded conditions usually found at raves, can lead to severe dehydration and hyperthermia or dramatic increases in body temperature. This can lead to muscle breakdown and kidney, liver and cardiovascular failure. Cardiovascular failure has been reported in some of the Ecstasy-related fatalities.
After-effects can include sleep problems, anxiety and depression.

What are its long-term effects?
Repeated use of Ecstasy ultimately may damage the cells that produce serotonin, which has an important role in the regulation of mood, appetite, pain, learning and memory. There already is research suggesting Ecstasy use can disrupt or interfere with memory."

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/Ecstasy
 
I've never tried MDMA myself (not too keen on things that can kill you in one dose if they disagree with you) but judging from the effects it has on others I think the benefits outweigh the negatives - but only in moderation. It was successful in its clinical uses, but its popularity as a party drug led to the ban. Self-control is key with drugs - if yours is weak you have no business touching the stuff, period.
 
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I am not a big fan of drugs, never used them (except for alcohol) not even pot. And no doing pot is not a victimless crime either, but then again neither is booze and there has been far more crime related to alcohol abuse then to pot.

The second thing is what prohibition made clear and Reagan's "war on drugs" reinforced is that one cannot win wars such as these. As long is there is a demand there will be a supply. Regardless. Law enforcement has better things to do then allow then to chase up petty druggies.

And lastly, there is a myth that pot is a "gateway" drug to harder stuff. Thats true, but only for a very small percentage of people. Most pot users are recreation drug users, I have members of my family that have been smoking pot for 20 years and have never escalated to anything more significant than that.

So with that in mind, and although I would strongly advise people not to do pot, I think its better it be legalized and regulated with the same warnings attached to smoking and alcohol.
 
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