Department of Righteous Shooting Texas Style - Page 4




 
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Department of Righteous Shooting Texas Style
 
July 9th, 2008  
AikiRooster
 
 
Department of Righteous Shooting Texas Style
If this was more common boss, the crime rate would decrease. Crime is heavy in the USA because certain folks don't want to punish the offenders. They would rather make ridiculous excuses for the lousy offenders and their deeds.
July 9th, 2008  
Rabs
 
 
Quote:
f this was more common boss, the crime rate would decrease. Crime is heavy in the USA because certain folks don't want to punish the offenders.
The fact that we have the highest percentage of our population imprisoned in the industrialized world kinda contradicts the not punishing thing.
July 9th, 2008  
AikiRooster
 
 
Not that easy Rabs, more than just that has to be fixed, like for example, making prison more negative for the inmates. Many of them have it better in prison than they have it on the outside. So, many like prison as they have everything there they need, sometimes they don't have it as good being free.
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Department of Righteous Shooting Texas Style
July 9th, 2008  
Rabs
 
 
Quote:
Not that easy Rabs, more than just that has to be fixed, like for example, making prison more negative for the inmates. Many of them have it better in prison than they have it on the outside. So, many like prison as they have everything there they need, sometimes they don't have it as good being free.
Making prison more negative? That is not the point, the point is to try and try to reform people into productive members of society while keeping them away from the general population. Turning our prisons into torture chambers is not going to make a dent in crime, it will just make people fight to not go to prison more. Maybe its me, maybe I see the world through rosy glasses, but I just don't see the need to take non-violent criminals and then put them in a prison situation where they are then indoctrinated into a life of crime by hardened criminals. Prison has become like a criminal college. That needs to change programs that teach life skills and trades need to be much much much more common, and inmates need to be separated on the kind of crimes they commit. There is a reason low crime places like Sweden have prisons that stress rehabilitation over punishment. Our prison system has failed, and we need to go more in the direction of Sweden and less in the direction of operating gulags.
July 9th, 2008  
AikiRooster
 
 
Those are good points Rabs, I agree with most of that. Not sure I'd agree with them being indoctrinated into a life of crime by hardened criminals though. Obviously, the less severe criminals should not be around the more severe ones, I agree with that. The problem is they always claim, not enough money. With all of our taxes going to Uncle Sam, they ought to never run out of money if they spent with even a bit of discipline.

Sheriff Apaio in AZ has a good system that works well. Folks don't like his prison system and it keeps many convicts from re-offending. I wouldn't say all folks are capable of benefitting from treatment though. Of course, some will, but some choose to be bad even if they are capable of good.
July 9th, 2008  
AZ_Infantry
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiRooster
Those are good points Rabs, I agree with most of that. Not sure I'd agree with them being indoctrinated into a life of crime by hardened criminals though. Obviously, the less severe criminals should not be around the more severe ones, I agree with that. The problem is they always claim, not enough money. With all of our taxes going to Uncle Sam, they ought to never run out of money if they spent with even a bit of discipline.

Sheriff Apaio in AZ has a good system that works well. Folks don't like his prison system and it keeps many convicts from re-offending. I wouldn't say all folks are capable of benefitting from treatment though. Of course, some will, but some choose to be bad even if they are capable of good.
Negative, sir. Absolutely and totally incorrect.

I've done time in the AZ jails. I was a little craphead drunk when I ETS'd, and I did the rotations of in and out jail terms here in AZ. I've been in the tents, I've been in 4th Avenue, I've been in perpetual holding, and I did 60 days in the tanks at Estrella.

In addition, I just exited a relationship about 1.5 years ago with a lady who was a D.O. (Detention Officer) at the 4th Avenue jail (and still is, to the best of my knowledge, if she could keep her legs closed long enough to avoid disciplinary action). Through her, I had (and still do have) many friends associated with Law Enforcement - from D.O.'s to Phoenix Police to Maricopa County Deputies to ICE.

Suffice it to say that I am well vested in the in's and out's of our farce of a justice system here. Let me give you just a few examples before I rip asunder your assumption of the jails and attitudes here. I don't mind embarrassing myself publicly if it'll shed some light on the truth of the situation - I'm not that stupid kid anymore and I have changed my life dramatically, so I'm no criminal. Most of my arrests were for fighting (assault) and DUI's, so nothing hard-core.

Anyway, here are some fine examples of AZ prosecution.

~ I know one guy that was doing 30 days in tents for a DUI. He blew a .002. Yes, that's a TWO. Legal limit is, of course, .008. That doesn't matter here, as driving under the influence only needs to be established by an officer's testimony of suspected incapacitation.

That's not jail hype, either. I actually SAW his booking sheet with the BAC printed on it and his summary verdict through the courts incarcerating him for 30 days. I saw it with my own two eyes. And he isn't the only one, either - I've seen others similarly jailed for similar offenses.

~ One gentleman was serving an indefinite period (also in tents). His "crime" was being behind on child support. He had a very sick child with a new wife, no medical insurance, and lost his job just to add insult to injury. One of Joe's roundups took him into custody, leaving his kids and wife with no income, no father and husband, and no way to pay his arrears support. So he was sitting in jail waiting for some miracle to pay his back support.

Yeah, there's some justice for you. Way to go, Joe!

I gave him my truck. No kidding. I had two trucks at the time, and he had no vehicle at all, so I signed my title over to him for a dollar so his wife and kid didn't have to take the bus. Ever seen a 6' tall man bawl like a baby hugging another man? Our whole tent (40+ inmates) had tears in their eyes as this guy and I hugged and cried. It was just a crappy little truck, but it ran and had a new engine and tranny, so I hope it lasted him and his family until he was released, at least.

When I was released, he was still indefinite (no term to serve, just incarcerated until he fulfilled his back payment obligations). Bible study on the picnic bench that night was packed. There were more than a few of us crying and praying for this man. I still pray for him and hope that truck helped him out.

~ One guy was serving 5 days for having the audacity to leave his truck at the bar and walk home so he didn't drive drunk. He had to "go," so he stopped in an alley and relieved himself. Police saw him and arrested him for indecent exposure and public intoxication. There was no victim, IE: No one saw him peeing but the cops. But they prosecuted him anyway.

5 days in jail, and now has to register as a sex offender. For peeing on a trash can in a dark alley trying to get home the responsible way. Justice at its perverted finest. Again, I physically SAW his paperwork. That's not a jail BS "I'm innocent" story.

~ Here's my favorite. One guy was sentenced to 20 days in jail for... get this... yelling at a wall. Think I'm kidding or fabricating, don't you? I'm not. That guy is me.

Remember the D.O. I said I was seeing? She and I were in an argument, and like a fool I popped some Percoset and washed them down with alcohol. She had made me walk home from a job with my bad leg, and I was in severe pain and, frankly, peed off.

When I finally got home, she laid into me and wouldn't let it go. She kept yelling at me and denigrating me, and I finally blew my top.

There was no physical violence at all. No wall got punched. The lady and the kids didn't get punched. I didn't even work my heavy bag.

She walked outside, I locked the door and screamed my frustrations at the wall. The WALL, bro. Yes, I was loud and profanity was flying, but no one was home but me. In my own home. I want to reiterate that at no time was any punch thrown at anything.

She went to a neighbor's, and they called the police. She asked the cops to make me let her back in the house. The neighbor told them about my collection of firearms. The cops sent the SWAT team.

Keep in mind, I couldn't even stand, much less walk at the time. Had my leg been working, I'd have left. But because I couldn't leave, I did the next best thing and locked her out and yelled to relieve my peed-off-ness. At no time was there ever any violence. And this was MY house - she wasn't even on the lease.

So SWAT shows up, I hobble to the front door on my left leg, and I'm confronted with no less than 20 cops in riot gear, all holding shotguns, pistols, M4's. I am ordered to lift my shirt and spin around, which I did, and then to lay face first on the ground, which I also did.

Next thing I know, there are 4 cops on my back and on my leg. It hurt. I squirmed. Wrong answer.

I tried to explain to them that my leg was in a bad way, that I had some broken screws and was TRYING to comply (I had no thoughts of being arrested, as I did nothing wrong), but they told me to, and I quote, "stop [my] F-ing belly aching before [I] got Tazed."

I was crying from the pain when they finally cuffed me and tried to make me stand, at which time my leg gave out, which they took as non-compliance and dragged me to the car, threw (literally) me in the back seat, and went and searched my house.

My charge? Domestic Violence - Fighting. Guess they couldn't make the Resisting Arrest charges stick.

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, off to jail I go.

In the end, and after $750 in bond (not bail) that the "victim" posted for me, I had two choices: Take a plea or face a jury. Well, no doubt that the cops heard me yelling, so the Disorderly charge would have stuck, and the lawyer said I'd get max penalty for that. So I took the plea.

They demanded that I take a YEAR of classes for domestic violence and substance abuse. Because I am a vet, they assigned me to the VA so I wouldn't have to pay for the classes.

Now, that's all well and good, but my employer wouldn't give me the time I needed to make the three classes a week. So I had a choice: Don't do the classes or lose my job and be homeless. I called SAS and the courts and my lawyer and begged and pleaded for an alternative, but they all told me to comply with the plea regardless of cost.

Well, I take care of my elderly non-mobile mother, so I couldn't lose my house. The result was a court decision that I violated my agreement and had to serve the 20 days with 2 days already served for a total of 18 days due, a $1,950.00 fine, and 3 years probation.

I'm a continue this in a consecutive post for ease of readability.
July 9th, 2008  
AZ_Infantry
 
 
To continue...

I realize that you are a Federal Law Enforcement Officer. You'll always have my respect and admiration for what you do.

But if you think AZ has any real system of justice you're sadly ignorant of the actual facts.

After my arrest I had to go back to the VA, and the X-Rays showed two more broken screws. Wonder how that happened. Maybe it was the cop kneeling on my leg as I cried and begged him to get off it, that I would comply with any order they gave me.

This isn't a cop-bashing post, so please don't take it that way. They were acting on the information from my neighbor who told them that I was angry (true), drunk (true), on prescription drugs (true) and well armed with many loaded guns (also true). I don't blame the actual officers one bit. Had I been in their position, I'd have likely taken the same level of force to ensure my safety and that of my fellow officers.

What cracks me up is that Camy, my ex, the "victim," wrote a SIX PAGE dissertation of the events asking the prosecuting attorney to drop the charges, absolving me of any guilt and explaining that the neighbor exaggerated the situation against her wishes. The PA told her (and myself) that the state would prosecute anyway. I lost my house, my truck, my freedom, my money, my respect in the community and church, and any sense of the false belief that doing what is right will exonerate you.

Yeah, way to go, justice.



In all my time spent serving sentence after sentence, I've learned one thing:

Criminals aren't born, they are made. The system makes them.

All of the examples I posted above have one thing in common: They will forever have a record that any infraction will send them to jail for.

In my experiences on the inside, and from talking to those charged with the outside, all AZ does is encourage people to commit actual crimes. After all, if you're going to be arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced, you might as well commit an actual crime. You'll serve the same amount of time, but at least you'll have bragging rights to score a smoke or two in lockup.

Nobody wants to be incarcerated for an innocent crime, bro. Driving after one beer with a BAC of .002 is not a crime. Being out of work and without money to pay child support is not a crime. Yelling at a wall in your own home is not a crime. Being responsible enough to not drive drunk and having to pee is not a crime.

The system here makes criminals. That is Joe's platform. The real criminals get the same sentences, so why not take a chance? Better to be found guilty of something you're actually guilty of than to do the right thing, try your best, and be convicted for your tenacity to do the right thing.

You think the jails here discourage criminal behavior? Ever seen a 37-year old Army Infantry veteran taunted by a 19-year old punk kid with a given badge making him lean right with authority? Keep putting punk kids in charge of otherwise responsible adults, you'll get not-responsible adults tired of badge leaning punk kids.

The jails here treat us all like we're scum. You teach a man to act like scum to survive, he'll become scum.

It is that simple.
July 9th, 2008  
senojekips
 
 
There's nothing quite like first hand knowledge.

Yet,... I still vacillate between rehabilitation, and Soviet style labour camps. To be honest, I think there is a place for both of them, but those undergoing rehabilitation should be able to see what it's like for those in hard labour, just to give them a friendly warning, so to speak.

Act like a human, you get treated like a human. Act like an animal, and you'll wish you were one,... at least they have the protection of the RSPCA.
July 9th, 2008  
major liability
 
 
Oh yeah, I can't count the stories I've heard about perversions of justice in this state... Don't have time to even list 'em.

I think prisons for non-violent offenders should be aimed towards rehabilitation, whereas the condition for violent criminals should be extremely harsh... Still, that'll provoke more of them to die in a shootout than accept their arrest, so it's a double-edged sword.
July 9th, 2008  
AikiRooster
 
 
Well, holy crap, your stories are depressing AZ, I think I'll shut up on this for awhile, my toes don't taste good.
 


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