D.C. Police Chief Defends Checkpoints

AikiRooster

Tube Monkey USMC
WASHINGTON --
The District of Columbia's police chief on Monday defended vehicle checkpoints in a neighborhood struggling with violence, saying the measure was a success and that no shootings occurred while they were in place.
Police Chief Cathy Lanier, testifying before a D.C. Council committee, also refused to refrain from using the controversial checkpoints again, despite those who said the tactic had brought the city a rash of bad publicity.
"We are trying to do the right things for the right reasons," Lanier said.
Under the initiative in the Trinidad neighborhood for six days earlier this month, officers checked drivers' ID and turned away those who didn't live there or have a "legitimate purpose" for visiting, such as a doctor's appointment or a church visit.
The measure has been criticized by civil liberties groups as a violation of citizens' constitutional rights.
Johnny Barnes, executive director of the D.C. branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, has warned that police "are on a collision course with the courts" if the checkpoints continue.
At the hearing before the council's public safety committee, council member Mary Cheh asked Lanier to consider backing down.
"I think the costs here are extraordinary and the benefits are either marginal or nonexistent," Cheh said.
Lanier, however, testified that the initiative announced in June was a success and that she would likely use it again. She noted that there were no shootings while the checkpoints were in place from June 7 until Thursday. She said police were also using other strategies in Trinidad, such as increased foot patrols.
Some are calling for long-term solutions to crime. D.C. Council member Harry Thomas Jr., who represents the Trinidad neighborhood, is pushing a 10-point plan that, among other things, calls for expanded access to drug and alcohol counseling services and establishing youth outreach centers.
Residents who testified Monday about the checkpoints were divided.
Kathy Henderson dismissed concerns about civil liberties, saying the level of violence was a greater threat to residents' rights.
"We're in crisis mode, and frankly any academic discussion about the merits of this program and civil liberties is best had in neighborhoods that aren't overrun by violence," she said.
Deborah Golden said the checkpoints left her furious.
"You don't teach children to obey the law by ignoring it when it doesn't suit your purposes," she said.



By BRIAN WESTLEY
Associated Press Writer
 
checkpoint%20warsaw%20ghetto.jpg


610x.jpg
 
Last edited:
Effective pics 5.56. Do you happen to know the location of the one with horse and cart? It seems strangely reminiscent to me and i would like to know. Aplogies for sliding off-topic.
 
I knew it. But let's not forget this:

pi030205a1.jpg


If it works so well there to make them safe...

TOG makes a good point. Our soldiers are enforcing check points in Iraq to help keep their people safe, but yet Americans are screaming about "our rights" when its done in the US? Seems a bit hypocritical.
 
The difference is that in Iraq we have terrorist running around with bombs on their chests and RPGs on their backs. You have death squads running around killing people because of their job/religion/ looks/being in the wrong place.

In Washington DC. You have check points because of a couple of petty thieves and ghetto thugs. The typical street trash you find in every part of America. They aren't hitting bus stops with bombs strapped on their chests, you don't have them lugging RPGs, and you don't have Death Squads running around killing folk. You have a couple of gang bangers trying to mug someone or a auto burglary.

Yes, it's bad. But you do not solve crime by setting up check points and asking folks what reason they have to be there. You solve that type of crime by community policing. You send officers on the street and have them walk the neighborhoods and talk to the folks that live there. 90% of all crime is solved not by tactics like check points and shows of force. You solve crime by having the community tell you who and what is doing said crime. You get the community support by helping them and not treating them like a foreign enemy spy or subjugated peasants.

Down in Miami we have high crime areas. We lower our stats by two ways. Good Cooperation with the community through community policing and also by making the penalties stick for the crimes people commit.

Police are hired by the community to protect and serve them. You cannot use military tactics to enforce criminal law. Doesn't work and has never worked. I will not allow that to happen. I will not allow a police state to be formed.
 
Their is no one tool that is all encompassing that will work to solve all crime, but what D.C. is doing is a tool that can work with other tools in place. The main problem D.C. has is drugs, gangs partaking in the drug business, and combat from therewith.
 
Their is no one tool that is all encompassing that will work to solve all crime, but what D.C. is doing is a tool that can work with other tools in place. The main problem D.C. has is drugs, gangs partaking in the drug business, and combat from therewith.

i think that the checkpoints are a good idea, but only to a point. more of a "we'll search you and confiscate your weaponry and or illegal items, but then you may roam where you will" would have been better. But again, it does need to be taken out of system eventually and by that point the police should have a strong foothold on the streets
 
Not exactly, in a perfect world yes of course, but the thugs have an edge that the police can't keep up with. Actually, they have many advantages but one of the main ones is the tri-state area being so close together. They can get to D.C., Va, Md, all within a matter of about 15 mikes, depending on traffic of course.
 
Their is no one tool that is all encompassing that will work to solve all crime, but what D.C. is doing is a tool that can work with other tools in place. The main problem D.C. has is drugs, gangs partaking in the drug business, and combat from therewith.

Every major urban center has those issues, damn near every community has those issues to some extent. It maybe a tool but we aren't talking like it's a DUI check point on 4th of July. This is effecting an entire community and it's going to effect community realtions.

5.56 is on the money. Other major dept's have addressed the issue by working with the community and targeting the problems within the community...as the community sees it. That breeds good realtions and intel.
 
True enough boss and D.C. does that and has done that for years, it hasn't been very effective on the large scale. Effective yes, but not as effective as they would have liked. One of the major hurdles in D.C. with their people is that they don't want to get involved because of retaliation. The citizens are smart, they know the cops can't do crap to protect them until the deed is done. The re-action policy is keeping the citizens feeling vulnerable. If they are threatened by these thugs, they feel the police should be able to do something about it, not sit around and wait until the thugs make good on their threats.
 
Last edited:
True enough boss and D.C. does that and has done that for years, it hasn't been very effective on the large scale. Effective yes, but not as effective as they would have liked. One of the major hurdles in D.C. with their people is that they don't want to get involved because of retaliation. The citizens are smart, they know the cops can't do crap to protect them until the deed is done. The re-action policy is keeping the citizens feeling vulnerable. If they are threatened by these thugs, they feel the police should be able to do something about it, not sit around and wait until the thugs make good on their threats.

That is one reason why you have the DC versus Heller Case in the US Supreme Court as we speak. It is illegal for law abiding citizens to have a firearm in operational use to protect themselves in their own homes. The Citizens are disarmed and yet the criminals aren't... Why? Because Criminals don't follow laws.

It takes on average 3-5 minutes for LEOs to arrive to a call. Within that time the criminal(s) are long gone or worse. The victim(s) could be injured or dead.

Common Sense and Statistics have both proven that if the law abiding citizenry are armed and can defend themselves then crime goes down.

Setting up Checkpoints and demanding ID in local neighborhoods doesn't solve problems. It only creates them. This isn't a Memorial Day Week DUI Checkpoint or a Airline Security Terminal. This is everyday common America. This is your and my neighborhood.

You cannot have the police checking IDs and demanding a reason why you are in a area. You already have Loitering and Prowling Laws in effect for that. But there is a strict guideline on how that law can be enforced and even I as a police officer really can enforce that law because the event and or person does not fall within those guidelines.

Police cannot and have no right to turn people away because they don't live in a neighborhood. What about people like me that do walk abouts. I basically leave my house, and walk for miles on end. It's my exercise, it's relaxing, and I enjoy it. I get to walk and talk with my neighbors. It's my neighborhood and I can damn well walk and go where I want. I will not have a JACK BOOTED THUG tell me where I can and cannot go. We as a people have the right to freedom of movement.

And I as an officer of the law and as a soldier took an oath to uphold and defend those rights. By transforming the Washington DC Metropolitan Police Department into a thugery of Jack Booted Gestopo Agents does not solve crime. It only fosters it and further erodes the publics' trust within it's police force and government.

THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER.
 
No argument's from me on that. Look at the area's that made it easier for folks to have concealed weapon permits, the crime rate goes down almost immediately and stays down. If the alternative is making that easier for the citizenry, then I'm all for that and I think the citizenry would be quicker to assist because they know they can protect themselves until the police do arrive.
Another issue D.C. has though is that they have a policy that when police are called to a domestic, all parties are arrested for the judge to sort out. Their is no police discretion in that. People will still be very scared to protect themselves because even if jusitified, that policy makes them also have to be arrested.

n779770542_2596609_6360.jpg

 
Last edited:
Florida law states that I as an Officer of the Law have no discretion when it comes to Domestic Battery. If a crime was committed, the offender will go to jail. Also as an officer I have discretion when it comes to enforcing laws. I can write you for a ticket or I can let you go with a verbal warning. I can arresting you for trespassing or I can say take a hike.

Domestic Battery is a whole other ball game. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the Police Setting up check points in neighborhoods and demanding ID, demanding reasons why they are in the area, and if not tell people that they cannot be there. How are they enforcing it? Under what authority of the law are they detaining people for not following.

Remember.... Peter Nickles (Washington DC Attorney General) said and I quote "I’m not worried about the constitutionality of it."

That is a major issue right there. The Constitutionality of what they are doing.... Every Law enforced across the United States of America must abide by the Constitution of the United States of America. That is what makes us different then the Orwellian Police State of the United Kingdom. We do not follow "Common Law".

Common Law - The system of laws originated and developed in England and based on court decisions, on the doctrines implicit in those decisions, and on customs and usages rather than on codified written laws.

What that means is that even if it's not on the books. If something offends the people or the State then you can be brought up on charges. In the UK, a number of people were arrested for looking through the Phone Books located at Public Phone Booths. This was back in the 1980s. They were calling call girls. They along with the Call Girls were brought up on charges. The UK had no law stating that Call Girls cannot list their services and that people cannot call them for their services. Performing said services was the crime. Nothing else.... yet under the Common Law system you can be brought up on charges because it is viewed as wrong (aka - Common Sense). You know that going to a call girl is wrong so you got arrested.

That doesn't work here in the USA. We have a system that is 100% completely different. Our legal system is based of the Codification System. That works very simply. If it's not on the books then it's not illegal. Hence why right now it is completely legal for you to burn the US Flag. If it's not on the books it's not a law.

By going this route we are going against what our founding father fought for and died for. We fought against the British for our freedoms for many reasons. Taxation, Law, Freedom, Religion, etc...

Our Constitution is what makes and breaks this government and our legal system. By doing this we are becoming what our worst enemies were and are today. We are going down the same slippery slope as Germany, Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other two bit thug nation on this world and within it's history.

Small things like this are what start it. First it's little check points, then it's police demanding for ID, then it's the restriction of firearms, then it's the installation of cameras everywhere, then it's a new police force, etc..... That is what has happened in the United Kingdom. Now they are living in a Orwellian Police State and Big Brother is watching their every move. Do you want to live in that sort of system?

I don't....
 
No, I don't, but at the same time, I understand why D.C. is doing it. D.C. is a screwed up city. Their is a lot of trash there. The police have to do something to try and stop the violent crime and the drugs which go hand in hand. I don't like what they are doing but with the options they have because of at every turn, they have to wait for something to be done, this is one of the few loop holes the Chief found where she thinks she can implement a little pro-active police work. That's what I think is going on. I don't envy that department one bit, they have an extremely tough job. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that whatever they have done to date has worked at medicore level at best.
 
The check point is going to be a disaster.
This is the type of thing that happens when you have an excess of stupid people who have lazy minds who want to see a clean map with squares, triangles and circles on them.
The reality is far more fluid and it is up to the police force to restore confidence with the communities and develop a mutual trust. People must know that it is more effective and better to side with the police and the police in turn must interact with locals with COURTESY and competence. The best way to lose trust is to be rude and incompetent, something that happens far too often. If you're incompetent, please, be kind at least so the good citizen can help you out. Respect the people, especially if they seem to lack any reason to be respected. Giving help in the manner of throwing a coin at a beggar will not be met by gratitude. Many times I have seen arrogant schmucks give help and feel high and mighty while those who had no choice but to receive the aid mutter about how they'd slit their damned throats at the first opportunity. It may be why peacekeeping fails so often.
 
Back
Top