BRITAIN'S GREATEST PRIME-MINISTER?

D

Del Boy

Active member
MARGARET THATCHER 'WOULD WIN ELECTION TODAY.'


By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor
Last Updated: 2:34PM BST 28 Apr 2008

Telegraph YouGov poll.



Margaret Thatcher at her peak.


Margaret Thatcher at her peak would sweep to power in a general election held today, according to an opinion poll for The Daily Telegraph.
The YouGov survey emphatically confirms the enduring political appeal of the country's first woman prime minister, who left office undefeated 18 years ago.
Baroness Thatcher comfortably surpassed Tony Blair when people were asked who they would pick to lead the country at the height of their powers if they had the choice. David Cameron, the Conservative leader, trailed far behind both - but was still ahead of Gordon Brown.
Almost two thirds of Tory voters said they would prefer Lady Thatcher to the current party leader.
Lady Thatcher, 82, is also considered, again by a long distance, to be the country's greatest post-war prime minister, well ahead even of Winston Churchill during his second term in office in the 1950s.
The poll demonstrates the difficulties the Conservatives have faced in emerging from her shadow since her departure and coming to terms with her legacy. Asked which of the current crop of Conservative politicians is her natural successor, two stand out: William Hague and Mr Cameron.
However, one third of those questioned think none of the current crop of Tories could fill her shoes. From 1979 to 1990, Lady Thatcher's three administrations transformed post-war Britain. High among the achievements with which she is credited is curbing the power of the trade unions. Her governments introduced a series of reforms on secondary picketing and the closed shop that Labour has never reversed.
Her leadership during the conflict with Argentina over the Falklands in 1982, her stand against the Soviet Union alongside Ronald Reagan that helped win the Cold War and her programme of privatising previously state-owned industries are also seen as high on her list of successes.

But most people consider her greatest attainment was being the first - and, to date, only - woman to become prime minister.
Her greatest failure, according to 45 per cent of those questioned, was her ill-fated introduction of the Poll Tax in 1990, a decision that precipitated her downfall.
The return of mass unemployment in the mid-1980s after the painful restructuring of British industry and "undermining the idea of public service" are also regarded as serious failures. One in five felt she had divided the nation and presided over an era of "greed".
But the poll demonstrates that long after she has left office, the Thatcherite legacy continues to shape Britain. It shifted the political axis from state-centred collectivism to private enterprise and the free market, forcing Labour to abandon old-style socialism.
For someone who was such a divisive figure, Lady Thatcher's position at the top of the pantheon of 20th-century leaders is in itself extraordinary. Apart from Churchill and Mr Blair, barely any other post-war prime minister gets a mention.
Even one in 10 of Labour voters, for whom she was a hate figure, acknowledged her greatness, as did 75 per cent of Tory voters. Her appeal as a conviction politician is especially strong in an era where the possession of strong principles and opinions is considered unusual, even a handicap.
It also extended far beyond this country. Even if the sensibilities of some in Britain were offended by her excessive denunciations of socialism, they were listened to avidly in Eastern Europe, where her reputation is even higher than it is here. For them, her articulation of choice and freedom from state control was less a matter of political debate than a rallying call.
Her certitudes also endeared her to Americans, who were to provide a sympathetic - and lucrative - audience for her speeches after her downfall in 1990. The poll shows that support for Lady Thatcher was almost evenly split among the sexes and especially strong among people aged over 50, who will have the strongest memories of her time in power.
 
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Guys - try reading the post for once. The British knew Maggie best; they kept re-electing her and never rejected her; take a look at what they think now. In this case the poll refers to post-war Prime Ministers, and puts her top; she would sweep the board even now.

Other polls have shown that in the case of ALL Prime-Ministers, she is rated 2nd to Churchill by Brits.
 
senojekips said:
Why do I see Idi Amin Dada, in a floral dress?

Even Betty couldn't stand her.
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I am not sure I see the similarity.


ecosse_whitaker430.jpg


:)
 
Voted by Brits the best post-war, because Winston's great efforts were before that, so he comes second. But the polls for ALL Prime Ministers always put Winston top and Maggie second. For the record, Heath bottom.


Thatcher became Prime Minister with a mandate to reverse the UK's economic decline. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasised reduced state intervention, free markets, and entrepreneurialism. The new era of economic liberalism transformed the UK into a fast-growing economy.

Among other things, she defiantly opposed the Soviet Union.


Thatcher believed that the role of the EC should be limited to ensuring free trade and effective competition, and feared that new EC regulations would reverse the changes she was making in the UK: "We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level, with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels".


Thatcher, the former chemist, became publicly concerned with environmental issues in the late 1980s. In 1988, she made a major speech communicating the problems of global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain. Referring to her important role in the struggle against ozone depletion, Carl Sagan claimed that she demonstrated the importance in the modern world of leaders having an understanding of science.

Thatcher is credited by Ronald Reagan with persuading him that Mikhail Gorbachev was sincere in his desire to reform and liberalise the Soviet Union. The resulting thaw in East-West relations helped to end the Cold War. In recognition of this, Lady Thatcher was awarded the 1998 Ronald Reagan Freedom Award by Mrs. Nancy Reagan. President Ronald Reagan, who was not able to attend the ceremony, was a longtime friend of Lady Thatcher.

In February 2007, she became the first Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to be honoured with a statue in the House of Commons while still alive.
She was against the British Government's plan to introduce identity cards. She is said to have remarked that ID cards were a "Germanic concept and completely alien to this country".

Lady Thatcher has received numerous honours as a result of her career, including being named a Lady of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (LG). She is a Member of the Order of Merit (OM) and a Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council (PC), as well as a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) .
.In 1999 Thatcher was among 18 included in Gallup's List of Widely Admired People of the 20th Century, from a poll conducted of Americans. In a 2006 list compiled by New Statesman, she was voted 5th in the list of "Heroes of our time" She was also named a "Hero of Freedom" by the libertarian magazine Reason.

Upon her death, Lady Thatcher is expected to be granted the rare honour of a state funeral.

Thatcher has also been awarded numerous honours from foreign countries. In 1990, she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
She was also given the Republican Senatorial Medal of Freedom, Ronald Reagan Freedom Award, and named a patron of the Heritage Foundation. She was also awarded the Grand Order of King Dmitar Zvonimir, the highest state order of the Republic of Croatia.


Her lowest ebb, was when she was forced out by those not fit to lace her boots and even then, at her resignation, a MORI poll found that 52% agreed with the proposition that "On balance she had been good for the country".

She was never rejected by the British electorate, and, as the current polls reveal, she would sweep the board at elections even today.
 
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Del Boy said:
Voted by Brits the best post-war, because Winston's great efforts were before that, so he comes second. But the polls for ALL Prime Ministers always put Winston top and Maggie second. For the record, Heath bottom.


Thatcher became Prime Minister with a mandate to reverse the UK's economic decline. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasised reduced state intervention, free markets, and entrepreneurialism. The new era of economic liberalism transformed the UK into a fast-growing economy.
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I am so glad you borought this to where it should be.

• Reality hasn't really intervened in my mother's life since the seventies. - Carol Thatcher, Margaret Thatcher's daughter

• When Mrs Thatcher says she has a nostalgia for Victorian values I don't think she realises that 90 per cent of her nostalgia would be satisfied in the Soviet Union. - Peter Ustinov

Then we come to the ordinary people you claim supported Thatcher.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/vote2001/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1346000/1346645.stm

I had to halve the number of comments to fit this post in.
The answers to your post shows that not everyone believes Thatcher was as good or as popular you say she was.

When she was PM she first thought she was the President and then the Queen. Now she thinks she's the Queen Mother.
John, London, UK

Margaret Thatcher is Tony Blair's greatest ally. Since she opened her mouth I'm thinking of voting Labour again!
Rod, Scotland

I remember growing up under Thatcher. I hated it. People became uncertain of their jobs and futures and its her policies that lead to so much privatisation and lack of public funding. I wonder if her only four hours sleep a night has left her in the correct frame of mind to make a stable choice rather than an irrational grab for the attention she once had. Grow old in peace Maggie, and please shut up.
Steven, Burnley, England

Being born in Yorkshire to Irish parents I have at least two reasons to despise Thatcher, however the main reason I rejoice that she is no longer in power is that my children are free to grow up in a world that is not characterised by greed and avarice.
Patrick, Hull, England

I think the consensus here is pretty obvious - the vast majority seem to be of the opinion that Thatcher was bad with a capital B, save a few fanatics and those fortunate to have lived abroad far away from the hell that was Thatcher's Britain. The more time goes by, the more we realise just how evil and abhorrent her policies really were.
Robbie, London UK


What was Thatcher's legacy? 15% interest rates, unemployment and inflation higher than when she entered as PM, no manufacturing industry left etc. It was left to John Major to sort it all out and prepare the way for the economy we have now. I can only hope that some time in the future, John Major, as one of the best PM's we have ever had, will get his just rewards and she will be finally remembered for what she really was and did.
Luke, Rugby, UK


Thatcher was never elected by a majority of the British public. At most the Tories polled 44% in elections under her leadership. If you take turnout into account then some 65% did not vote for her. Thatcher was a huge beneficiary of a flawed electoral system, and at the time the Labour Party lurched further to the left than any other time, resulting in lop-sided results in 1983 and 1987. This is similar to the position Blair is in now, although the result I would like to see under our crazy system is a crushing defeat for the Tories, ideally seeing them replaced by the Lib Dems as main opposition. Perhaps they might then be fully committed to a fair voting system so the days of Thatcherism (selfishness, division and intolerance) or Blairism (spin doctors, mute back-benchers) would be consigned to the dustbin.
Colin, England


Let's not forget that Mrs Thatcher threw away the lives of hundreds of servicemen in defence of a barren piece of rock, of no economic value, thousands of miles from Britain, then asked us to rejoice at the outcome. I can't help but think that is symptomatic of the jingoistic imperial attitude that, thanks to the Tories, does the UK great disservice overseas.
Nairn, Calgary, Canada

It is interesting to read that some contributors imagine Thatcher to be more principled than today's leaders. Why then did she take up a role peddling cigarettes after she was axed by her own party? She accepted money to meet the leaders of other countries to convince them not to restrict tobacco advertising and other practices. From Iron Lady to Fag Lady. That doesn't seem a very principled thing to do. And then there was that business of supporting Pinochet...
Paul R, Wales


I wish those who speak so well of Thatcher could have had the benefit of living on a subsistence income while the industrial heart of your region was actively destroyed. Try telling a 40-year-old miner who has just broken down in tears to "get on his bike". It may have been okay for a few rich kids in London, but for the rest of us it was agony. Yes she's relevant, as a reminder of the importance of never letting our own selfish attitudes overtake our moral judgement.
Dave, Newcastle, UK

loved Thatcher at first, then came to despise her. I voted for her when the trade unions were destroying our industry and she did an excellent job in controlling their power. She also had good economic policies for the most part. However she lost my support when she showed how cold and ruthless she could be in throwing millions out of their jobs and out of their homes. The legacy of Thatcherism is the number of homeless now on our streets.
Chris, Colchester, Essex

I know why you have so many respondents here - the wounds still run deep and the incredulity is one of British citizens' greatest shames and embarrassments.
Stephen, Hong Kong

It's interesting how the name Thatcher brings the right-wing loonies out from under their stones. The woman had few morals and no social conscience. Hey guys, we don't have an empire any more and people don't like being exploited.
Mike, London


Margaret Thatcher is only concerned with her own image, as she ever was, and tries to cling to the last vestiges of power and influence because she cannot let go. She dealt out a great deal of misery to many in her time as Prime Minister. Every time she speaks out these days in her usual self-obsessed and jingoistic manner, she erodes even further the dwindling Tory support.
Stuart Hamilton, Glasgow

Growing up in Yorkshire, I saw the effects of Thatcherism every day. She is a single minded woman who has always believed she is surrounded by fools. Unfortunately for the UK, her single mind was and still is missing a few marbles. From a great start in 1979 when the country was reeling, she has left destruction in her wake. We have no industry left and are seen as a second rate call centre rather than a major player in Europe. Blair may not be perfect but he is the country's best hope of progress. Let's stop throwing around terms like socialism, today's Labour party is a sensible middle of the road party whereas today's Tory party is a sad reflection of its former pre-Thatcher, pre-ideology self.
Patrick, Tampa, FL

Thatcher destroyed more British industry in ten years of mismanagement than Hitler did in 6 years of bombing. She declared economic warfare on those who did not live and work in her middle-class, middle-England utopia. Frankly the quicker she is consigned to the pages of history the happier I will be.
Lawrie Elder, UAE


Quite frankly, I'd rather vote for Minnie Mouse then Thatcher, she would have made more sense and done less damage.
 
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A comment on Maggie Thatcher: Responsible for destroying British industry, escalated the violence in northern Ireland with her heavy-handed approach, running one of the worst economies in UK history and actively supported Pinochet fascist regime in Chile.

Finally booted by her own party, after even they could take anymore of her...

My Second Choice is Winston Churchill. Churchill was a excellent wartime PM, but he was not a good peacetime leader. The right man for the right time. but his aura faded once WWII ended.

My Vote: William Gladstone. Lead the UK at the summit of its empire.
 
Kindly take note of the opening post, MM. It reflects the views of the Britsh electorate, who understand why Thatcher had the strength of character to do what had to be done to save Britain at the time. She was not abandoned by her party, rather than by the pygmies around her, who then washed the party straight down the drain. Britsh polls always put all -time top PMs as Churchill followed by Thatcher. This particular one lists post-war candidates and therefore puts Thatcher ahead of Churchill, whose best was over by then. The poll establishes that Brits would vote for her now even, in her prime; the electorate never rejected her. This represents the real big picture.

BritinAfrica

Your post - that is an example of your 'research', is it? I understand your problem now. 2 celebrities, one misquoted, one long dead, and a few ancient malcontent blogs to fill the page. A a serious consideration, that is buffoonery talking, in comparison with a current legitimate site which establishes that the Brits would vote for her now, and hold her in high esteem. Pull your socks up, I would recommend.
 
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Del Boy said:
BritinAfrica

Your post - that is an example of your 'research', is it? I understand your problem now. 2 celebrities, one misquoted, one long dead, and a few ancient malcontent blogs to fill the page. A a serious consideration, that is buffoonery talking, in comparison with a current legitimate site which establishes that the Brits would vote for her now, and hold her in high esteem. Pull your socks up, I would recommend.
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Del, insults arent becoming of a gentleman. The opinions I posted are of real people. Celebrities, even the dead had a opinion before they died, and a few ancient malcontent also have the right to an opinion. Whom are the 2 celebrities, and the ancient malcontents that you are refering to? Are you refering to Peter Ustinov as the dead person, celebrity or ancient malcontent? I assume that Carol Thatcher was the one who was misquoted?


The Telegraph is blatantly pro Conservative and therefore has little or no credibility as to the mood of the British people as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph
The Daily Telegraph has been politically conservative in modern times. The personal links between the paper's editors and the leadership of the Conservative Party, also known as Tories, along with the paper's influence over Conservative activists, has resulted in the paper commonly being referred to, especially in Private Eye, as the Torygraph. However, in its early years it was associated with Gladstone and the Liberal party, coining the nickname "the people's William".[citation needed] There are moderators on the MyT site.

Del, quite frankly in my humble opinion, you are flogging a dead horse. You have your opinion, I have mine and others have theirs. I really suggest that you leave it at that.
 
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BritinAfrica - please stop stumbling in the dark. You are lost on this issue. Some Brit, I must say , and I have noticed this before. And you requested that this issue be brought here as a new thread, so now you have got it.

First, here I put forward posts 1 and 9, factual contributions which explain why Thatcher is held so high in the psyche of the British electorate.

You can only hunt around for mud to sling, nothing but negatives, which are always easy meat. My posts were of up-to-date current content, yours are only ancient trivialities, yes, 2 celebrities, one misquoted completely, one long gone show business satirist and actor, charming fellow liked a joke, I am a fan, plus a few ancient negatives from long ago, blogs from a few malcontents. My link deals in millions, yours in tens, just tens.
So much for your own understanding of the issue.

Furthermore, you have won the booby prize for your candidate for top PM against Thatcher, put forward on a previous thread--- Edward Heath, the biggest loser of all, considered an also-ran by the British public and viewed with distaste generally. That you are not aware of this fact demonstrates how little you know of the British electorate. Hahahahahaha. You might wish to withdraw gracefully from this particular thread whilst you still maintain a semblance of dignity.

Finally - re. the Daily Telegraph, most people are aware of its high reputation, and this article was directed by the youGov. poll , for goodness sake. Get real. And Wiki contributions are included in the posts I have put forward , especially for your benefit, in support of consideration of Margaret Thatchers 'greatness', like her or hate her; my posts 1 and 9.

I leave my posts 1 and 9 standing against presentations of challenges for the position of greatest PM, always, of course, accepting Churchill as top of the pile, No. 1 in the all -time lists.

BTW - I have to warn you that there are folk on these boards, not including me I have to say, who know Wiki off by heart, and recognise that it is the fast and first easy reach for those who need a quick education on an issue in which they are not well versed themselves.

Enjoy.
 
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Delboy, grow up. Your childish nonsense and tantrums are becoming irritating in the extreme, not only to me but others.

It appears your tactics are well known on the site, I have been warned that basically I am wasting my time to get into any sort of sensible debate with you.

Your inane postings have spoken volumes not only to me, but others.

Have a good day and keep taking the tablets.
 
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The post of a lost cause. You asked for this subject to be taken to this section, but you are going down with your sinking ship.

I posted two perfectly legit. posts on the subject, 1 and 9, and they stand to be challenged. They carry nothing other than the proposition than that Margaret Thatcher in held in high regard by the British electorate now, as she was in her time. Those posts do not suggest that she was loved by everyone.

Those posts stand and I rest my case on them.

It is impossible to describe those posts as 'inane,' 'childish nonsense ' or 'tantrums', or even 'tactics', so you have no basis for the weak excuses you now spout, despite your underground manoeurvrings with the disgruntled.

That old chestnut cuts no ice with me, as they know only too well.

I am pleased to wipe my sword and leave posts 1 and 9 to do my talking for me.

I am having a nice day, all the better for your kind wishes, thanks.
 
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Yes tactics. The warning I recieved:-

"You can't debate (with) Del boy.

He never asks questions,.. he only makes statements, which no one is permitted to debate. He is already starting his favourite ploy of insulting your intelligence, if you should answer in kind he will wait several posts then accuse you of starting the abuse.

He is well known here, don't waste your time."

That just about says it all. It seems you are well known for your nonsense.

The earlier appeal you made trying to get others on your side failed miserably, "Guys - try reading the post for once. The British knew Maggie best..." A post you claimed was for my benefit. Don't you find it strange that no one supported your claim? People are not as gullible or stupid as you try to make them out to be. A man of your age should have more sense.

I will engage in sensble debate with anyone on any subject, without insults or personal attacks. Something you are clearly not capable of.

Hopefully Gordon Brown will lift the lid on the Thatcher years as reported in UK's Daily Mail. That should make some interesting reading, in particular with regard to the Falklands.The Tories saw it as a ruse to allow Mr Brown to hurry out embarrassing revelations from the past. For them to make such a statement, I wonder what could be so embarrassing and what are they afraid of becoming public knowledge?

"I'm going down with my sinking ship, your pleased to wipe your sword?" LOL Good God.
My ship is still afloat and on full ahead, whilst you have fallen on your sword.

And as for your "Adios amigo" on your other forum post, your watching too much TV and really need to get out more.

Give it up Del, you've lost the plot.

I will heed the warning regarding the wasting of my time.
 
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You can stir up all the mischief you like - I required no appeal for support, my posts stand for themselves. As for your warning and suchlike, that underground stuff speaks for itself.

Your insults are simply a waste of space. I have no interest whatsoever in you opinion of me.

Try on topic and countering my posts 1 and 9. There's a simple job for you. Try taking on posts 1 and 9 on this political thread which you specifically asked for. You haven't made use of it yet, to push your candidate, Edward Heath.

C'mon, summon up the courage. You can't just rely on getting personal because you have nothing else.

Posts 1 and 9 .

If instead you are changing tack and wish to continue making it a personal issue, we can take a look at that, happily.
 
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mmarsh said:
A comment on Maggie Thatcher: escalated the violence in northern Ireland with her heavy-handed approach, and actively supported Pinochet fascist regime in Chile..
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I completely forgot about those two items. I wonder how many innocents died because of heavy handed approach, and as for Chile, I'm not surprised. Birds of a feather.................

mmarsh said:
My Second Choice is Winston Churchill. Churchill was a excellent wartime PM, but he was not a good peacetime leader. The right man for the right time. but his aura faded once WWII ended..
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Agreed, he was the right man at the right time. A brilliant man and leader.I remember watching his funeral on TV, many people had tears in their eyes

mmarsh said:
My Vote: William Gladstone. Lead the UK at the summit of its empire.
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Churchill and others cite Gladstone as their inspiration, but would Gladstone have handled WW2 as well as Churchill? Something to ponder.
 
BritinAfrica said:
I completely forgot about those two items. I wonder how many innocents died because of heavy handed approach, and as for Chile, I'm not surprised. Birds of a feather.................

Agreed, he was the right man at the right time. A brilliant man and leader.I remember watching his funeral on TV, many people had tears in their eyes

Churchill and others cite Gladstone as their inspiration, but would Gladstone have handled WW2 as well as Churchill? Something to ponder.
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You know I have always considered Thatcher to be your typical thug who succeeded by simply bullying her way through parliament however to be fair she was the right man for the job when it came to the Falklands war.

The more I think about it the more I believe Spikes comments about seeing Amin in a dress probably decribe my impression of her best.
 
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