If I knew what I was talking about I wouldn't be talking to you

I blame Tim for the bombing .

Originally Posted by tetvet

If I knew what I was talking about I wouldn't be talking to you

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or serious here...

Do you genuinely want to learn or do you just want to reinforce stereo-types and simplistic views so one doesn't hurt their heads too much thinking about the utter complexity of it all?

It is utterly complex, it’s almost global. Moslem terrorists have a strong presence in over a dozen countries. They desire to convert or kill. They hate the US and Americans in general. Islamic Front is the show piece presently.But they are only a part of this overall treat. The US has limitations in Afghanistan and had them in Iraq. This prevented them from completing the job. If they were given the freedom to eliminate the treat I believe they could, but it would likely result in more collateral damage. Bad for public relations. My brother observed this 1st hand. The average person in these countries just wants to make a living and care for their family. This information comes to me from direct sources friend and relatives in the service and people who have provided humanitarian aid.

It is so complex its simple .

Originally Posted by tetvet

It is so complex its simple .

Do explain it then...I'm sure there are many across the world who wait in utter anticipation for the solution to it all. If you've a solution then out with it.

Like many people I was born in the U.S. and grew up in Vietnam , I fought through the entire tet offensive 2 months of 24/7 , the U.S. won that battle and you might say the war in that time period , when asked how you could tell the difference between friend and foe my answer was simple you killed them all , it was and all out push to crush the enemy and Americans can be good at that if turned loose , so what needs to be done in the middle my answer is simple .

We can see how effective that was since south Vietnamese sovereignty was preserved and we have had successful policy in south east Asia for decades now...wait...no we haven't...hmmm, seems like something isn't lining up here. Oh that's right, again, we tried to kill the problem then as we tried to do in Iraq and Afghanistan and it was fruitless.

The Vietnamese as well as Laos and for a time Cambodia fell to communism which means we failed. Meaning didn't win...meaning lost.

Which unit were you with around Cu Chi?

I was a door gunner with the 116th ahc ( assault helicopter company ) call sign Hornets I flew on Hornet 32 based at ( NOT AROUND ) Cu Chi , we operated in the Iron Triangle and War Zone C . The VN war was lost because one participant knew how to fight a war and the other knew how to win a war .

Originally Posted by tetvet

I was a door gunner with the 116th ahc ( assault helicopter company ) call sign Hornets I flew on Hornet 32 based at ( NOT AROUND ) Cu Chi , we operated in the Iron Triangle and War Zone C . The VN war was lost because one participant knew how to fight a war and the other knew how to win a war .

Precisely, and quite well put. Fighting a war well and winning a war are two different things. I'd like to eventually win this thing...not simply be more combat effective at the tactical level. I was in the invasion of Iraq and also spent almost 2 years in al Anbar province where the heart of the insurgency was in the now well known Fallujah, Habbaniyah, and Ramadi areas. We were quite good at killing the enemy...or who we deemed the enemy...and all it did was make things worse. We could never kill the right ones at the right times without creating more to deal with that would eventually take their place. Killing "everybody" while tempted to do so in some of my darkest moments, I knew was not an option and deep down we knew not only would it be wrong, but it would just cause us to lose more of our buddies over time in an endless cycle of violence. I was back over there back in 2011 in a much different environment in the Kirkuk area. We had much more success by empowering the locals, setting up our own intel cells, and giving the security forces the ability to accomplish their missions in their way with us backing them with resources, training, and back up. Local civilians would flag us down with tips about insurgents at great risk to themselves. Iraqi security forces would insist to patrol with my unit because we trusted them and empowered them. And we got results...far more high value targets captured, far more IEDs found before they blew from anonymous tips, far more cooperation all the way around. Something that was unthinkable in my first 2 combat tours over there.

Also, my dad was a grunt up in I corps through most of 67 on his first tour and a door gunner/crew chief on his last two tours in the RoV on the UH34 and CH46 from 68-70. Much respect.