The Best Way to fix America




 
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The Best Way to fix America
 
June 29th, 2009  
Redcell
 
 

Topic: The Best Way to fix America


The Best Way to fix America
I think we (USA) Should go Reagan on the Economy.

Full on military buildup.

Get back up to 30+ Aircraft Carriers, Re open Bases like Mclellan more jets and bombs, and guns and bullets. Battleships and submarines. It will make the national Debt go up, but not that much.

Make National Security and The military 15% of all spending in the USA and get rid of welfare.

Re- organise social security,and start cutting EPA stuff. Get Rid of CALOSHA And The Assault rifle Ban.

That will boost the Economy.
And less forien Aid.
Stop Sending Gov. Money to Africa And use it here
June 29th, 2009  
The Other Guy
 
 
Didn't we have a recession during the Reagan era?

I believe we did.
June 29th, 2009  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcell
I think we (USA) Should go Reagan on the Economy.

Full on military buildup.

Get back up to 30+ Aircraft Carriers, Re open Bases like Mclellan more jets and bombs, and guns and bullets. Battleships and submarines. It will make the national Debt go up, but not that much.

Make National Security and The military 15% of all spending in the USA and get rid of welfare.

Re- organise social security,and start cutting EPA stuff. Get Rid of CALOSHA And The Assault rifle Ban.

That will boost the Economy.
And less forien Aid.
Stop Sending Gov. Money to Africa And use it here
A very bad idea more than one reason.

Reagan's economy plunged the USA into the worst deficits the country in History until Dubya. Definately a bad way to go. And his vast military spending did cause a recession in the mid-1980s.

Full Military Buildup, For what purpose? Are we planning to invade China or something? We havent had 30+ Operational Aircraft Carriers since WWII. Since when has pouring money into defense has ever solved economic downturn when the country was not at war? You only build an Army that size if you plan on using it. I am against war in general.

Any economist will tell you that butter is far more profitable than bullets. Unless of course your an arms dealer, in which case peace is very bad for business.

Get rid off welfare: Why is it when I hear Republicans talk economics the very first thing they want to do is punish poor people. Most people on welfare have a job, just not one that pays the basic living bills. Have you ever had to raise a family on minimum wage? There are people on welfare that have up to 3 jobs and still are on welfare because they make so little they cannot survive otherwise. That would be the death of the lower class. Same goes for CALOSHA, why take away poor peoples only health insurence. Or do you plan to pay for it out of your own pocket, or worse let people die on the sidewalk.

On a similar note why do these same people insist on giving the Wall Street crooks pass after pass. This economic downturn was caused by crooks in the financial industry -they got rewarded for being thieves. They were laughing all the way to the bank (pardon the pun).

The Assault Rifle Ban: I assume you mean in California because the Federal Assault Rifle Ban already expired 5 years ago. I dont want to get into another gunrights battle, but how does removing the assault rifle ban in california fix the nations economy? Even if the ban were lifted, while there would be some new buyers it wouldnt be enough to restart the California economy, let alone the US Economy. There are far more potential buyers of Apple's iphone 3GS than they are of knock-off AK-47.

Do you know that US aid in a single year to Isreal is actually more that we give to entire sub-sahara continent over a 4 year period? We gave approx $4 Billion to the region from 2000-2004. We give $6 Billion to Israel every single year. If we are going to reducing foreign aid why start with the nickel and dimes?
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The Best Way to fix America
June 29th, 2009  
A Can of Man
 
 
Alright... your statements in bold... Mine not in bold.

Full on military buildup.

Get back up to 30+ Aircraft Carriers, Re open Bases like Mclellan more jets and bombs, and guns and bullets. Battleships and submarines. It will make the national Debt go up, but not that much.

Are you f*cking kidding me? You have any idea how expensive this stuff is? If anything right now, we ought to be shedding a carrier or two from the fleet. These things are ridiculously expensive. They can be put into storage and activated once the geopolitical situation changes to a point where they become strategically necessary again. Obviously, I'm not saying, just wait until there's a conflict and then reactivate them, I'm saying activate them later when major conventional threats start becoming an issue again. MORE SUBMARINES?? Have you even been keeping up with recent events? The only part I agree with: more jets. Not necessarily more per se, but they need to replace a lot of the ones in service right now. Where to get the money for that? Getting rid of a few ships might be a great place to start!


Make National Security and The military 15% of all spending in the USA and get rid of welfare.
Are you f*cking kidding me? Get rid of welfare completely? You realize that some level of welfare coverage makes things a lot more affordable for people in other parts of the world right? When I go to a hospital in the US, I have to wait for like 8 hours in the ER, get really shoddy treatment (not quite Indonesia, but far worse than most European countries and developed Asian countries), fork out an outrageous sum of money and even with private insurance, the premiums are so damned high that it drains my wallet faster than a ***** can.
A lot of good people benefit from welfare. Some level of government support is a good thing.


That will boost the Economy.
No, it'll just bankrupt it and people will be spending their entire income on medicare, insurance etc. Only the very rich will ever have any money to spare and the rest will be living in really lousy conditions or spending their entire lives paying their debt that they accumulated. Spend wisely is good advice, but having to spend far too much on essentials is another.

And less forien Aid.
Stop Sending Gov. Money to Africa And use it here

The one part I agree with.
I don't know about cutting all foreign aid, but it just seems that Africa is this one massive black hole.
June 29th, 2009  
Redcell
 
 
Mine Are in Red.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
Alright... your statements in bold... Mine not in bold.

Full on military buildup.

Get back up to 30+ Aircraft Carriers, Re open Bases like Mclellan more jets and bombs, and guns and bullets. Battleships and submarines. It will make the national Debt go up, but not that much.
Are you f*cking kidding me? You have any idea how expensive this stuff is? If anything right now, we ought to be shedding a carrier or two from the fleet. These things are ridiculously expensive. They can be put into storage and activated once the geopolitical situation changes to a point where they become strategically necessary again. Obviously, I'm not saying, just wait until there's a conflict and then reactivate them, I'm saying activate them later when major conventional threats start becoming an issue again. MORE SUBMARINES?? Have you even been keeping up with recent events? The only part I agree with: more jets. Not necessarily more per se, but they need to replace a lot of the ones in service right now. Where to get the money for that? Getting rid of a few ships might be a great place to start!
The current administration has spent more than any other with no signfigant change. The recession in the 80s was quick. This one has been predicted to last for several years, not months. The last thing we need now is A cut in military strenght or spending. Shed a Carrier or two? Are you crazy? The power that those give us along with the security, and the tactical advantage are too great to "shed a couple." more subs yes but not too many. How with the world in the state it is could you even suggest to put an aircraft carrier in storage. Aircraft carriers are expensve? The president is spending money to build fVcking Frog bridges.
If you belive that we cant cut from other places and spend on a military buildup,than there is something wrong with your thinking.

Make National Security and The military 15% of all spending in the USA and get rid of welfare.
Are you f*cking kidding me? Get rid of welfare completely? You realize that some level of welfare coverage makes things a lot more affordable for people in other parts of the world right? When I go to a hospital in the US, I have to wait for like 8 hours in the ER, get really shoddy treatment (not quite Indonesia, but far worse than most European countries and developed Asian countries), fork out an outrageous sum of money and even with private insurance, the premiums are so damned high that it drains my wallet faster than a ***** can.
A lot of good people benefit from welfare. Some level of government support is a good thing.
Yes in America, Get rid of welfare completly. The majority of people on it dont need to be and are using it for something other than living ie: drugs
My mother raised me and my five siblings, which brings the total to 7 in the house, on her own without welfare, we had a house in a nice neiborhood, and healthcare, that we could afford. If my mother can do it so can other people.

That will boost the Economy.
No, it'll just bankrupt it and people will be spending their entire income on medicare, insurance etc. Only the very rich will ever have any money to spare and the rest will be living in really lousy conditions or spending their entire lives paying their debt that they accumulated. Spend wisely is good advice, but having to spend far too much on essentials is another.
There was a recession in the reagan years, but how strong was the economy? And the recession lasted how long? The economy will not bankrupt, multi billion spending bills that arent read before they are passed will. how has the Current Administration spent wisely? How will a military buildup cause people to accumulate debt? My family has money to spare now, and we are not rich. And The military buildup in post WW1 Germany boosted thier Economy, Just as the cold war buildup destroyed the russians. but the russians were not capitalists, and that system will prevail. Leave the private sector alone and have the gov build up the military. Yes With taxes from the private sector. You dont need to add more taxes, just divert it from other places
And less forien Aid.
Stop Sending Gov. Money to Africa And use it here
The one part I agree with.
I don't know about cutting all foreign aid, but it just seems that Africa is this one massive black hole.
I agree completly.



mmarsh you said


The Assault Rifle Ban: I assume you mean in California because the Federal Assault Rifle Ban already expired 5 years ago. I dont want to get into another gunrights battle, but how does removing the assault rifle ban in california fix the nations economy? Even if the ban were lifted, while there would be some new buyers it wouldnt be enough to restart the California economy, let alone the US Economy. There are far more potential buyers of Apple's iphone 3GS than they are of knock-off AK-47.

Do you know that US aid in a single year to Isreal is actually more that we give to entire sub-sahara continent over a 4 year period? We gave approx $4 Billion to the region from 2000-2004. We give $6 Billion to Israel every single year. If we are going to reducing foreign aid why start with the nickel and dimes?

Yes I meant in California, it will not fix the nations economy, but I can assure you that the lifting of the ban in this state will GREATLY help the economy here. Considering the Size of californias Economy Which I suggest you read about before speaking about if it helps here the affect will spread.

As for the aid to Israel We get An allie in the middle east, A democracy in the middle east, A staging ground in the middle east, and from africa, We get nothing.

Start with the "nickle and dimes" because we dont get anything out of it. no Results that help the USA or its allies.
June 29th, 2009  
EladBell
 
 
exuce my ignorance,but how can making the military bigger improve the economy
June 29th, 2009  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EladBell
exuce my ignorance,but how can making the military bigger improve the economy
Industry....

Buy new equipment for the service and you create jobs. Tanks, Guns, Planes, Ships, Bullets etc.... are all built by private enterprise in the USA. There are no more government run armories.

Want to buy new tanks like the M1 Abrams? We wold go through the General Dynamics Corporation.

F-22 fighters? Lockheed Matrin....

M16 rifles? FN Herstal and Saber Defense

M9 Pistols? Beretta USA

Body Armor? Point Blank Defense

etc....

Each company purchases material and machine tooling to produce the products. Harris Electronics is a major defense contractor and installs a lot of their work into USAF fighters. They're located in Melbourne, FL....

The metal for the tanks, DuPont Chemicals for the kevlar in body armor, Remington Arms and Federal Ammunition company for the ammunition, Bates Boots for the footwear, etc....

A lot of companies buy equipment, material, gear, etc from smaller companies. The big guys rely on the little guys for their products. Also a lot of the defense contractors are also invested into the civilian market.... General Electric is a major defense industry player. They also make washers and dyers, fridges, medical equipment for hospitals, etc....

Trickle Down Economics work......

If the larger companies make profit then they higher more employees which in turns create a spending surplus for the consumer industry. If rich people buy for products then the employees of the companies that make the products make profit which in turn trickle down to the lower economic levels.

Giving as homeless guy money has never created a job for me..... allow someone to start a business without a high tax burden has given me a job..... Rich people create jobs because they want more money..... Bums and welfare babies don't....
June 29th, 2009  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Do you know that US aid in a single year to Isreal is actually more that we give to entire sub-sahara continent over a 4 year period? We gave approx $4 Billion to the region from 2000-2004. We give $6 Billion to Israel every single year. If we are going to reducing foreign aid why start with the nickel and dimes?

Ah yes - how could we neglect to blame the same old target, whatever the subject.

Tell us about the aid totals donated by US government why any at all is provided anywhere why don't you, if you want to go down that route. Oooh yes - Israel has oil of course!!
June 29th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EladBell
exuce my ignorance,but how can making the military bigger improve the economy
It works well for employment alone so long as you are at war. If the US was to pull out of it's current military obligations, this so called industry would all fall in a heap,... bigtime.

Look what happened at the end of WWII and the end of the Cold war, military spending stopped and the military industrial complex threw their work forces on the scrap heap.

[sarcasm]It's certainly a great trade off, kill off your younger generation and spend trillions running a war to keep your industry alive and well.[/sarcasm]

It would be cheaper to treble social service payments and just put those out of work on the dole, but perhaps a better idea might be to invest the same money in new sunrise industries.

The real problem with this is twofold, "Lives for jobs is never a good trade off" and "Even wars have to be paid for by the taxpayer eventually" Wars don't generate money, they only generate the flow of money,... outwards.
June 30th, 2009  
A Can of Man
 
 
On More Carriers
Recell, I'm not supporting increasing spending on anything really but seriously, considering the type of conflicts that are being fought today, you don't need that many aircraft carriers. All they ever do is arrive on station, wonder what to do and then go back. If you don't believe me, that's exactly what happened on the cruise on the documentary "Carrier" by National Geographic. Normally I woudln't just buy into what goes on in a documentary but look, once the USS George HW Bush is completed, there will be 14 aircraft carriers. Just WHAT are you going to do with 30???
Addeded security my ass. They have no one to fight. You could reduce the US Navy by half and they'd still whip the crap out of all the world's navies combined.

On Industry

They only give you a huge profit if you export them. There is a way you could actually earn a lot of money through this, but getting your main military involved will mean that eventually the money being spent is taxpayer money. Here's how. The military gets involved in a war. The military needs more people and more stuff. They buy the stuff from the military industries and the money for buying that stuff comes from the taxpayer. This means dollar for dollar, the tax payer's tax is not being used for his/her own good or benefit, but to be thrown out in the middle of some desert. It's not a very effective use of tax at all and considering just how EXPENSIVE all that stuff is, you're quickly going to run dry of money. That's just about always been the case. When there is a prolonged war, countries go broke. There's a reason for that.
This is how to earn money from the military industries: 1) Export. 2) Have PMCs that buy the stuff from money earned from contracts abroad. But that means that PMCs must constantly have to find someone to fight simply because that's the only way they'll ever survive. They're going to lobby for inciting violence all over the world simply to stay in business.

Welfare
A lot of countries are doing fine in regards to public education, public healthcare etc. and they're not going bankrupt. Overly greedy insurance companies in South Korea can't really get it their way much because the government coverage is adequate for the vast majority of folks in this country. We pay for it and we get what generally fits for most of us. I do not have any health insurance except for the government coverage and I'm very happy with that.
I'm not for spending government money on the homeless and whatnot. There are enough charities out there doing that sort of work anyway and if not, seriously tough luck. Welfare's for regular folks like you and me. Giving a tax break for startups are a great idea, but that's only possible because welfare exists and while a certain individual is starting up a company, other folks are sharing the tax burden.
Welfare is also money for roads, basic mail, etc.
There are some things that should never go private:
1) Military
2) Police
And there are some things that should ALWAYS have a public alternative:
1) Basic utilities (water, electricity, gas)
2) Hospitals
3) Insurance (car, house, health)
4) Ambulance
5) Postal service
Because the last thing we need is for the price of basic goods to go skyrocketing. When there's competition, the price stays fair, once a business reigns supreme in an area, the price goes through the roof. Having a government alternative means there's always competition.

Economics
Not that simple really. Large companies, without regulation, would outsource their work to the absolute minimum and we'd be left with hardly a thing. Only the folks who went to Ivy League colleges would ever have a hope in hell of landing a half decent job and I don't need to remind you as to how much that sort of education costs. You will literally spend your whole life paying off school debt. Try sending kids to school, having your family covered medically and saving up for your kids college with that sort of pressure.
 


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