295 killed - Malaysian Airlines passenger jet shot down over Ukraine.

Redleg

Redleg

The fire is everything
Staff member
A Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with 295 people aboard crashed and burned on Thursday in an eastern Ukraine wheat field near the Russian border, an area roiled by fighting between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian forces. Ukrainian officials called the crash an act of terrorism and said the plane might have been shot down by a Russian-made antiaircraft system...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/malaysian-airlines-plane-ukraine.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International...act-passenger-plane-ukraine/story?id=24599558

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856


This is just unbelievable...
My thoughts goes out to all the families affected by this terrible tragedy... :(
 
Both the Ukraine and Russia use the same weapons, however this aircraft went down over Ukrainian territory so I think they are the ones who have to do the explaining, assuming that it even happened the way they say it did. The airline certainly has some responsibilities here, routing a civilian aircraft over a war zone.
 
This is tragic...295 more innocent lives lost in the midst of this war. My heart goes out to their families. :-(
 
This video was uploaded to Youtube just after the plane was shot down, and it claims that this is a Russian Buk surface-to-air missile launcher leaving the area just after the plane was hit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU5NSSzYygk"]Торез - Снежное. По�вили�ь первые кадры виновника �мерти 300 па��ажиров граждан�кого �амолета - YouTube[/ame]


It's not confirmed in any way yet, but this video has started to circulate around the net now..

The pro-Russian separatists may have captured one from the Ukrainian forces, or been given one by Russia.
But without proper training or good ground support and radar systems they may have been firing blind at any aircraft over the area, and may have mistaken this passenger jet for an Ukrainian military plane.

Here's one article about that, but it's from Ukraine so it's not confirmed by any other nations yet either
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...pped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html
 
It seems unlikely that separatists would have had the ability to use such a weapon even if they had one any idea what the chances of a hit would be if they were firing blind?
 
If this story is true then the separatists would have access to Buk launchers and probably target acquisition radar(s) as well.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...trol-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/

Many of the separatists are former military, so if they had a launcher and a radar and someone with knowledge of the system it is quite likely that they could have hit a jet at that altitude.

But without more then the basic launcher and radar they probably wouldn't have any ways to identify the type of aircraft, so a commercial passenger jet could have been mistaken for an Ukrainian military transport plane..
The separatists have shot down several Ukrainian planes and helicopters in that area before, but with short range AA, so if they had stolen Buks then it's highly likely that they would have used it if they thought that the airspace was closed for civilian traffic.

But I guess we'll just have to wait for any more independent news and reports, the propaganda machines on each side down there will certainly be working hard the next few days to blame eachother.
 
Redleg said:
If this story is true then the separatists would have access to Buk launchers and probably target acquisition radar(s) as well.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...trol-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/

Many of the separatists are former military, so if they had a launcher and a radar and someone with knowledge of the system it is quite likely that they could have hit a jet at that altitude.

But without more then the basic launcher and radar they probably wouldn't have any ways to identify the type of aircraft, so a commercial passenger jet could have been mistaken for an Ukrainian military transport plane..
The separatists have shot down several Ukrainian planes and helicopters in that area before, but with short range AA, so if they had stolen Buks then it's highly likely that they would have used it if they thought that the airspace was closed for civilian traffic.

But I guess we'll just have to wait for any more independent news and reports, the propaganda machines on each side down there will certainly be working hard the next few days to blame eachother.
Click to expand...

Without a radar would there have been much chance of hitting anything though?
 
For even those who do not worship. May their souls rest easy, and at peace.

I surely hope peace for these people's reaches them soon, although current trends seem to differ.

However... A greater justice would be proved via a thorough however difficult investigation of the cause of the crash which would be more respectful to the victims and their families. I pray that a mechanical malfunction wouldn't be used as an blind overlooked note to scream of an attack for the purpose of furthering ulterior motives for parties that are not even nationally aligned with the Country this plane was flying over.

Or that something more sinister we all look back on decades from now in hindsight with guilt and uneasiness like so many other chapters in history.

My condolences , and respect to the victims and their families.:-(
 
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Is it just a coincidence that the separatists are sending their SAM launchers back across into Russia.....?
By the time any international investigators are let onto the site any evidence if any will be long gone....at the crash site I mean.
 
Warwick said:
Is it just a coincidence that the separatists are sending their SAM launchers back across into Russia.....?
By the time any international investigators are let onto the site any evidence if any will be long gone....at the crash site I mean.
Click to expand...


Not quite...

There are ways via the merits of modern chemistry to detect explosive residue on parts of even a charred airplane. Crash investigators all over the world in countries that have been victims of terrorist attacks have been doing this for decades to find even traces of bomb blast residue, as well as tell tale ways metal tends to bend and warp around a zone of explosive impact.

Also tell tale shrapnel marks, such as "peppering" would make it obvious. Even if any aggressor was using a missile system, even if they scavenged the black boxes (especially the cockpit voice recorder which should have telltale audio evidence).
then cross referencing the amount of damage found on the wreckage and cross referencing the damage to known performance data of Soviet Era and Russian missile systems in the area. Specifically the missile itself, with the type of explosive charge, and the weight and amount of said explosive we can paint a picture of what weapon was used, and from what general altitude the impact (if any occurred). It would be wise yet unlikely to get some investigators from some NATO countries to analyze the remains as part of a international body in this geopolitically unstable event.

Finding chemical explosive traces would spur this investigative process. If not, then the search for either pilot error or mechanical malfunction should be conducted with haste.

I am sure many people at the plane's manufacturer Boeing, would like to know which one it is. If this is not a shoot down then it's important to find the cause of the crash to see if any faulty points in the design may affect other Boeing jets like this elsewhere in the world and how to remedy it. As well as send out a alert to all known operators of any potential problem.
 
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