20th Century Heroes & Villains - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
May 9th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
*Deng Xioping - Deng seized power in China after Mao’s death in 1976 and ended the dementia of the Cultural Revolution that killed 2 million people and nearly destroyed China. In 20 years, Great Reformer Deng transformed China from a vast, impoverished prison camp into a dynamic nation destined to become a world power. Deng deftly dismantled communism and Mao’s totalitarian system, releasing the Chinese peoples’ inherent energy and talent, and brought China into modern world. Under Deng, the income of Chinese jumped tenfold. Deng laid the foundation for a future more politically relaxed China that resembles modern Singapore. History will hold Deng a greater revolutionary than Mao Tse-tung.
Where in the name of all that is unholy did they source this crap?!

Deng was at the helm and personally ordered the crackdown on demonstrators at Tianamen Square in 1989. This pisses me off.
May 9th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
What strikes me is that many, me included, take all these different approaches to this list. There are enough things to say about Deng that will not make him look like a hero to me... and Buldogg too (but that was already obvious) So who was responsible for making this list again?
May 9th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
The list is crap. FDR and Pol Pot on the same side? John Paul II and Khomeini? Come on.
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Boots
May 9th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
I actually gave it quite a lot of thought whether or not to say that, but I chose to do so. These guys just get my blood bloiling with their caring-for-the-world-cause-we-know-better attitude. You have this extreme conservative cleric group making rules about peoples and cultures thousands of miles away. They know that the Catholics there listen to them, but they also know that these same people indulge in sexual escapades (as do they too). And denying these people the simple protection of a condom is beyond me. I do know that it helped to spread HIV! And to me that is being an acomplise to murder. You premeditated the prohibition of condoms and you know that HIV kills!
The fact that you would sit and call Catholics murderers doesn't sit well with me at all, and frankly, stinks of ignorant bashing.
May 9th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
The fact that you would sit and call Catholics murderers doesn't sit well with me at all, and frankly, stinks of ignorant bashing.
Bashing... okay, you might be right there. Ignorant, I would call me ignorant, at least not on that specific issue. During my Uni years I had quite a few classes about developmental issues and this came up too. And the occasions where you could say that the Catholic church did real solid developmental work are countable on one hand! But the examples of classic, colonial approach are still numerous. And that doesn't sit well with me. That is why I called it indirect murder or accomplise to murder. Maybe the latter should be brought back to: accomplise to not providing protection and due to this other people died. The fact that they knew what would happen and that they still said; wearing a rubber is wrong and against biblical values! Again, it makes my blood boil!
May 9th, 2006  
G Connor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by C/1Lt Henderson
Oh, boy...Take cover men, we are about to see some bombshells dropped here...I highly doubt the the President would take out frustrations on millions of people because of one girl...If you could, cite a source for the comment where President Roosevelt said," This one German girl rejected me so Im gonna get the US involved in a war against Germany, even though I know hundreds of thousands of lives will be lost." Then my friend, I will truely be a believer.

EDIT: Ted, the Catholic Pope prohibited condoms because Catholics believe that one should not have sex before marriage. That being said, what do you need a condom for if you arent afraid of getting your wife pregnant. If you are, then dont have sex. And I highly doubt the POPE had sex before marriage...oh wait, did the pope ever get married?
Which Pope are you refering to?
May 9th, 2006  
G Connor
 
I don't believe the Hungarian people consider Ike a hero. The back door deal he brokered gave the Brits and Frogs free reign in the Suez and allowed the nacent Warsaw Pact to crush Imre Nagy's Hungarian Independance movement. In doing so, economic colonialism was perpetuated in the Middle East and the precedant set for the death of '68's Prague Spring.
Al that being said, the lists are interesting and reflect a certain Euro-centric perspective. The description of De Gaulle might not be appreciated by many Frenchmen.
May 9th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
Bashing... okay, you might be right there. Ignorant, I would call me ignorant, at least not on that specific issue. During my Uni years I had quite a few classes about developmental issues and this came up too. And the occasions where you could say that the Catholic church did real solid developmental work are countable on one hand! But the examples of classic, colonial approach are still numerous. And that doesn't sit well with me. That is why I called it indirect murder or accomplise to murder. Maybe the latter should be brought back to: accomplise to not providing protection and due to this other people died. The fact that they knew what would happen and that they still said; wearing a rubber is wrong and against biblical values! Again, it makes my blood boil!
Nope, I'm sticking with ignorant religion bashing.
May 9th, 2006  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy
[By the way, Roosevelt hated Germans primarily because a German girl once rejected his sexual advances during his studies at Göttingen. Feeling snubbed, he took out his massive frustrations on millions of people. My God, that is pathetic].
Not saying that this isn't true but could you post a source for this along with proof of the insight on whether he took out his frustrations on millions of people? No gobbledegook allowed.
May 9th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
Not saying that this isn't true but could you post a source for this along with proof of the insight on whether he took out his frustrations on millions of people? No gobbledegook allowed.
Sorry guys. That annecdote was only from memory. I cannot for the life of me remember where. I tried the "net" but to no avail. My memory might be somewhat defective these days.

Anyway, here is something equally interesting. Roosevelt was arrested in Germany. "FDR was once arrested — four times in one day! At age 14, he sailed to Europe with his tutor, Arthur Dumper, and one day they embarked on a bicycle tour of the Black Forest in Germany. Roosevelt later confessed that authorities had arrested them for knocking over a goose, picking cherries, parking bicycles at a railroad station and cycling after sunset. FDR said in each case, he managed to talk them out of trouble ‘‘in my best company German.’’"

My aim in recounting the original story -- now it is in any case interesting that Roosevelt had a good command of German -- was to try to reduce realpolitik to something less mysterious and closer to home. People form their ideas from personal experience. There is a good dissertation on the subject cited below. If you read a bit of it and think about how Roosevelt's worldview formed, it all seems quite primitive.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/p...story_21.shtml

https://drum.umd.edu/dspace/bitstrea...i-umd-1397.pdf