20 years since Rainbow warrior sinking - Page 3




 
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20 years since Rainbow warrior sinking
 
July 14th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
20 years since Rainbow warrior sinking
Just a point here, I think the French tests on Muaroa were underground as I believe the last atmospheric test in the pacific was in 1973.

I dont disagree with the sentiments of your argument but once again I would point out that French territories in the pacific are treated the same as they would be if they were in France itself therefore I grudgingly accept the French argument that there is no distinction between testing in France and testing in French polynesia.
July 14th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
chewie, "matey," it is not your place to decide who is being an "ass" and who isn't, and if you continue to do so it will result in disciplinary action.
July 14th, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
I do not need to do any research. You are the one here trying to get sympathy for your cause. You are the one trying to convince us that they (the French) are evil for what they have done, therefore it is your responsibility to provide us with the information we need to form a "proper opinion" (once again, hypocritical). And yes, I probably do appear to be an ass, wanna no why? The US tested nuclear warheads less than 1,800 miles away from where I live but I am fine. I do not see many Americans with 13 fingers or a third eye, even people who only lived 100 miles away from the test were fine.
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20 years since Rainbow warrior sinking
July 14th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I am not going to do any research, you want to know why? Because I don't give a damn about this.
^^^ your words. if you dont give a damn about it, why are you posting here? if you haven't even got the curtousy to actually know a little about what you're a talking about i not going to waste another minute with you.
***edit. comment removed by author***


Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I do not need to do any research. You are the one here trying to get sympathy for your cause. You are the one trying to convince us that they (the French) are evil for what they have done, therefore it is your responsibility to provide us with the information we need to form a "proper opinion" (once again, hypocritical). And yes, I probably do appear to be an ass, wanna no why? The US tested nuclear warheads less than 1,800 miles away from where I live but I am fine. I do not see many Americans with 13 fingers or a third eye, even people who only lived 100 miles away from the test were fine.
it's not MY cause, as i have said on more than one occasion i sympathise with greenpeace on two issues.

and while we are on the subject of research, you mentioned something on greenpeace ramming a coastguard vessel and i asked for a link...no reply. i said i wouldn't comment on it untill i had read about it, i haven't seen the link yet....you gonna provide it?

as for my being hypocritical...i HAVE provided links, and you said you couldn't be bothered!

now, the crux of the issue, you OWN country tested IT's bombs near you, say canada or mexico had done the same.... i bet you guys would be hootin' and hollering just as loud.

NZ has a long history of either supporting or being the underdog, issues like this seem to bind us all together. dont belittle that
July 14th, 2005  
DTop
 
 
Damien435, you need to tone down the rhetoric a bit too. If you don't care about the subject, then by all means don't comment on it. If you have no source for a statement then just state that it is your opinion.

To all: Let's not let this topic deteriorate any further and we can do without name calling. Thanks for your cooperation.
July 16th, 2005  
Tvoi-Vrag
 
I think the only wrong that happened here was the French getting caught
July 16th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
I have tried to stay out of this squabble primarily because I really dont think a whole lot of Greenpeace but I am amazed at the number of people who think that because it was Greenpeace it was a perfectly acceptable action especially given the conditions in the world today.

Lets look at it purely from a "basics" point of view and take the parties out of the picture:

A foreign nations military has just entered one of your harbours and blown up a civilian boat killing a civilian in the process.

Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Because thats what we are talking here.
July 16th, 2005  
Bory
 
 
Lets look at it from this angle,

Let's all pretend for a minute, that the Rainbow Warrior was in fact, Bob's Auckland Boat Tours, Flagship, the Trawlerferry.

It was also going to participate in the Protest, but Bob wasn't a greeny, none of his crew were greenies, just concerned citizens of New Zealand,
and the same thing that happened to Trawlerferry.

There would not be a single French Supporter here at all. But just because it was a Greenpeace boat, you all seem to not care.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT: Wake the Hell up.
The French Government, wheater intentional or not, killed a civilian in the waters of a Soverign Nation.
Their motive was to stop anyone from getting near Muaroa Atoll.
They obviously are not a very clever because their solution to a bunch of protestors was Blow 'em up. Not bad for a Democracy.

The reason the French Government did not test those Nukes on the French Mainland, was because they would not get re-elected. Simple, their attitude is, we don't care what happens in other countries, but do it to us and all hell will brake lose.

Personally, I think any government that thinks like that is childish and Immature.

Can I ask for an Argument from the AFFIRMATIVE not based on the Principle it was only a Tree Hugger. I want to something Intelligent from the AFFIRM.

As I Said earlier, I hate the Greenies, And have even said that if the Greens Party in Australia holds Government, I'm immigrating.
I reckon they are all morons, but I don't beleive we should blow them up. Ignoring them, belittling them, humiliating them are all very good and Intelligent alternatives.
July 17th, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
http://www.greenpeace.se/norway/engl.../pr/991012.htm

Quote:
- Greenpeace never resorts to violence. Therefore I couldn’t imagine that the Coast Guard would run over the boat I was in and then not help me afterwards, Mark Hardingham said at a press conference in Stavanger Tuesday afternoon
Remember that quote.

http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/rw/oct25.html

Wow, in a post USS Cole world I would think a USN Navy ship would have sent a five inch shell through the Altair's engine room.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp...eace112403.cfm

That they certainly do.

http://www.seashepherd.org/crew-watson.html

Quote:
In 1972, Paul Watson skippered the tiny Greenpeace boat Astral, and placed it on a collision course with the French helicopter carrier, the Jeanne D'Arc, in Vancouver harbor. This was a protest against French nuclear testing at Mururoa Atoll in the South Pacific. The Jeanne D'Arc was forced to change course. The Astral changed course and kept on target - bow to bow with the warship, forcing the Jeanne D'Arc to stop.
Guess that explains France's ever so aggressive stance towards Greenpeace, looks to me like Greenpeace drew first blood. Also I believe in that link it mentions something about stopping further test in the Aleutians, perhaps that is why the US and many other countries started testing in the South Pacific, no? Actually rather interesting article I must admit. Also found in there a statement that contradicts one in the first link I provided.

http://www.boatsandiego.com/site/news_clippings.htm

Quote:
As a Coast Guard rescue boat stands between a Greenpeace boat and the oil tanker Pecos, rear, protester Holly Deye, right foreground, talks with reporters about the group's efforts to block the ship's entry into Long Beach Harbor Wednesday, Sept. 27, 2000, off the Southern California coast. Deye said the use of oil for fuel was fueling "climactic chaos." Authorities kept this and one other Greenpeace boat away from the ship, which made it to an anchorage in the outer harbor without incident. (AP Photo/Reed Saxon)
Not much else there.

http://archive.greenpeace.org/pressr...997aug182.html

Arrrrrrr! I guess it is Pirates we be! Polly want a cracker?

http://forests.org/archive/asia/rwimpby1.htm

The ship that never dies.



Quote:
Although Greenpeace insists that its activities are entirely nonviolent, growing evidence suggests that it may covertly participate in direct violence against people and property. Indeed, even animals are not exempt. As reported by Robert W. Lee in the November 20, 1989 issue of The New American, members of the group have in the past sprayed Canadian baby seals with brightly colored dyes, making their fur economically useless but also increasing the susceptibility of the seals to cold and to predators. Greenpeace also appears to work closely with other organizations that more openly boast of violence.

Formed by Greenpeace co-founder Paul Watson in the late 1970s, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has a history of taking militant action against whalers. In the early 1980s, Watson loaded his ship, the Sea Shepherd, with heavy concrete and rammed and sank several whaling ships off the coast of Portugal. Then, in September of 1987, a sabotage team from Watson's group used the cover of darkness to board and scuttle two whaling boats in the harbor of Iceland's capital, Reykjavik. That same night the saboteurs broke into a whaling station and destroyed its underground communications station.

The covert ties between Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd become more apparent from investigations following the destruction of the Icelandic communications station. The Sea Shepherd saboteurs could not have found their way around the station at night without having previously scouted it. This job was probably performed by a "journalist" who had previously visited the station, since she was the only outsider who had ever gained access to the facility; this "journalist" turns out to have been a member of Greenpeace.

Greenpeace also maintains unofficial ties to the violent sabotage organization Earth First!, a group of environmentalists who destroy equipment and endanger human lives. According to the July 1990 Organization Trends, published by the Capital Research Center, some of Greenpeace's events have been organized by one of Earth First!'s founders, Mike Roselle. Greenpeace employees have also gathered signatures for a 1986 petition circulated by Earth First!, and the September/October issue of Greenpeace encouraged readers to contribute to the legal defense of four Earth First! members arrested by the FBI for trying to cut electrical power lines.
Wow, I am speechless. (Well, almost)
July 20th, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
Also, the ACLU has recently filed suit against the FBI for the release of documents indicating just what the ACLU, PETA, Greenpeace and several Muslim groups have been doing behind the scenes. Basically telling who they are dealing with, how much (if any) money is changing hands and to whom it goes.