118 active duty military members petition congress ...
Rob Henderson
Banned
It only takes one.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Not a democracy ...
The treason might be just a little heavy, however the rest of it is right on point. To bypass the chain of command is insubordibation at it's worst ... to abrogate the UCMJ by misusing the code could very well qualify for conduct unbecoming ... along with a half dozen other possible charges for what they have done. Not sure what fighting an undeclared war will do to the the possible sentences that could be handed down.
The military is not now, never has been and never will be, a democracy.
Believe that says it all.
The treason might be just a little heavy, however the rest of it is right on point. To bypass the chain of command is insubordibation at it's worst ... to abrogate the UCMJ by misusing the code could very well qualify for conduct unbecoming ... along with a half dozen other possible charges for what they have done. Not sure what fighting an undeclared war will do to the the possible sentences that could be handed down.
The military is not now, never has been and never will be, a democracy.
Believe that says it all.
Marinerhodes
Active member
We are at war. Make no mistake. Hostilities may have ended with Iraq but I am uncertain if we have declared the war over. On the other hand does Global War On Terrorism ring a bell?
I know Marines coming from bootcamp and serving a certain amount of time are still getting two ribbons. These ribbons are the GWOT and ND (Global War On Terrorism and the National Defense). See the links below for the specifications for the awards.
As for sentences that could be handed down for one thing or another: This means that a person that goes AWOL/UA and is convicted of desertion could be tried and sentenced to death as a deserter. So is treason too harsh of a word when compared to this? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suppose it depends on what you compare things against.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm85.htm
You can read about it at the above link.
The Ribbons/Medals awarded:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Service_Medal
http://www.foxfall.com/csm-common-wots.htm
Rob Henderson
Banned
No, no, no. Dont get me wrong, Im agreeing with you...I was under the impression that Damien was saying that it was a very small number that were petitioning...I was telling him it only takes one and we need to nip that in the bud.
Senior Chief
Banned
I am in full agreement with bulldogg's statement.
mmarsh
Active member
Technically we are at war, but legally we are not. Congress never officially declared war, therefore I doubt they could charge anybody with treason. Look at John Walker Lindh, what he did was certainly treason but he was never charged with it because Congress never declared war on Afganistan.
Damien435
Active member
I am under no misconception about (the lack of) Democracy in the military, my point was that 118 out of 1.4 million is such a small number that it might as well be non-existant. I bet at the end of WWII you could have found 118 troops who rejoiced with FDR died, there are always a few bad apples.
Didn't Congress pass a declaration saying we were at war with terror? That's a pretty broad statement and I am pretty sure it can be made to apply with Iraq and Afghanistan. Besides, I am a firm believer that Congress declaring war is merely a formality, the President decides whether or not we are at war, if the President orders the military to invade a nation we are war war whether or not Congress passed any resolutions.
Troops should always follow their orders explicitly and, for lack of a better way to say it, keep their opinions and private ambitions to themselves or this is what happens.
I know, that was poorly worded, but I hope you get my point.
Didn't Congress pass a declaration saying we were at war with terror? That's a pretty broad statement and I am pretty sure it can be made to apply with Iraq and Afghanistan. Besides, I am a firm believer that Congress declaring war is merely a formality, the President decides whether or not we are at war, if the President orders the military to invade a nation we are war war whether or not Congress passed any resolutions.
Troops should always follow their orders explicitly and, for lack of a better way to say it, keep their opinions and private ambitions to themselves or this is what happens.
I know, that was poorly worded, but I hope you get my point.
Donkey
Active member
We dont have to be at war for someone to be charged with treason....
And we have an American being charged with treason right now...just they havent caught him yet....His name is Adam Gadahn
Senior Chief
Banned
Before the final sentence is passed on these guys they need to partially de-nut them with no anesthesia and smash their 'nads with a ballpien hammer!
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bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
I am not completely conversant with what the UCMJ recognises as 'state of war' and/or 'declared war'.
I believe that there IS a definition and set of criteria, that needs to be met before a military member can be tried under the 'war' section of the Courts Martial Manual.
I believe that there IS a definition and set of criteria, that needs to be met before a military member can be tried under the 'war' section of the Courts Martial Manual.
Senior Chief
Banned
Rest assured if the guys have broken the UCMJ or the U.S. Code, they will be prosecuted under the full extent of military law.
Call Capt. Rabb or the new Mrs. Rabb, one of them might be able to help you determine if there was military law broken.