waffen ss

lundin

lundin

Active member
im not talking about the waffen ss totenkompf, the concetration camp guards, im talking about the line units that where probably the best line units of world war 2. any thoughts on them as a whole? i understand that they commited horrible atrocities, but i dont think we should judge what happened in ww2, particularly regarding the russians and germans, which is where ww2 was really fought. anyways, any thoughts on the ss as a fighting unit? like i said earlier, i consider them as a whole the best line units in ww2.
 
You're referring to the military wing of the SS which was the Waffen SS. They came under Heer (Army) command and were deployed alongside the Heer as part of the Wehrmacht. In general they were very tough and effective units and as good as the best Heer formations. They were involved in all the major Eastern Front battles and indeed it was the II SS Panzer Korps that Erich von Manstein used to spearhead his brilliant recapture of Kharkov in 1943 and so save Armeegruppe Sud (Army Group South) from collapse.

Incidentally, the SS Division you mentioned, Totenkopf or 3rd SS Panzer Division, was one of those front line formations and formed part of the II SS Panzer Korps as stated above. You might find the attached link useful:

http://www.feldgrau.com/iissk.html

BTW all Armies committed atrocities in WW2, such is the nature of war. :(
 
The Waffen-SS mainadvantage in battle came from the fact that they received the best equipment and the best training available to the Germans. One could also say that because they were volunteers, their motivation was also top notch.

This is not however true in every case, and usually distinctions were made between the freiwillige and the native German units. The SS-units that served in the Balkans for example were not much different from standard Wehrmacht infantry divisions or could even be equipped much worse.
 
Hegario said:
The Waffen-SS mainadvantage in battle came from the fact that they received the best equipment and the best training available to the Germans. One could also say that because they were volunteers, their motivation was also top notch.

This is not however true in every case, and usually distinctions were made between the freiwillige and the native German units. The SS-units that served in the Balkans for example were not much different from standard Wehrmacht infantry divisions or could even be equipped much worse.
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It's been established that it was a myth that the SS Divisions received better equipment than the regular Heer units. In fact, the elite Heer Panzer or Panzergrenadier divisions, like Panzer-Lehr Division for example, sometimes received new replacements first. The first German division to receive Royal Tigers was a Heer and not an SS Division.

The Waffen SS began as an all-volunteer strictly German force with very high standards. Of course as the war went on and the native German manpower pool dwindled, they had to relax their requirements and so you had a number of European SS formations or non Germans fighting in the German SS formations.
 
my gandpa was in the waffen ss. if you wanted to join them in the early years of war, you had to pass many physical tests. later from 1943 on they took everybody who wanted to join.
but the original units received an elite training. It was a matter of honour for the waffen ss members never to retreat, but to win or to die. So every regular army calmed down, and fought with a higher motivation, if they knew that a waffen ss unit was near. They knew if they come into trouble, the waffen ss would get them out.
for the members of the waffen ss war was a personal thing, so i think you cant compare them with normal units, because they lived to fight and die for hitler.
:?
 
Waffe ss troops and the panzer grendiers are the most elite troops in the german army, and during kursk they almost wont the battle near prohvapoka, but because of the german command, they lost the battle due to a counter-offensive, anyz, my point is that with good supply and leadership. waffen ss and panzer grendiers would own onthe eastern front :rambo:
 
Waffen SS Division Wiking had heavy losses on the eastern front and was litterally shot to pieces, although beside this "incident" I reckon Waffen SS as perhaps the best fighting corps the world ever seen since the days of Alexander the Great.
 
Truth be told, the Waffen SS were very similar in function to the French Foreign Legion. It was largely through Waffen SS units that non-Germans were often incorporated into the German military. Certainly many of them were German, you had a lot of both. Its also a lot like the US Marines today -- a gigantic special forces organization. The exploits of the Waffen SS units are very impressive. Some of the best (IMHO) were the Liebensdart AdolfHitler Waffen SS and the Grossdeutchland Waffen SS.

You can't argue that these units just plain kicked ass.
 
EuroSpike said:
Waffen SS, the first real Eurocorps, multinational army of the United Europe. 8)
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The problem with this is it was not a united Europe. The Waffen SS recieved volunteers from Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, parts of Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Belaruse and Russia. There were also volunteers from USA, Switzerland, England, Vietnam and even one from Canada. Unfortunatley for these volunteers most people from these countries hated the Axis. That is hardly a united Europe.
 
godofthunder9010 said:
Truth be told, the Waffen SS were very similar in function to the French Foreign Legion. It was largely through Waffen SS units that non-Germans were often incorporated into the German military. Certainly many of them were German, you had a lot of both. Its also a lot like the US Marines today -- a gigantic special forces organization. The exploits of the Waffen SS units are very impressive. Some of the best (IMHO) were the Liebensdart AdolfHitler Waffen SS and the Grossdeutchland Waffen SS.

You can't argue that these units just plain kicked ass.
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Grossdeutchland was not an SS unit.
 
papasha408 said:
Grossdeutchland was not an SS unit.
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Very true, Grossdeutschland had the make up of a Panzer Division yet it was officially a Panzer Grenadier Division and never received the title "Panzer Division" although no one knows why this was the case.
 
papasha408 said:
The problem with this is it was not a united Europe. The Waffen SS recieved volunteers from Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Holland, Belgium, France, Italy, parts of Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Belaruse and Russia. There were also volunteers from USA, Switzerland, England, Vietnam and even one from Canada. Unfortunatley for these volunteers most people from these countries hated the Axis. That is hardly a united Europe.
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Also, after the war many were executed as traitors. generally the volunteers from the western allies ie Britain, Canada and the us, were the minority. as i recall, the British ss contribution struggled to make 50 men
 
r.fox said:
Also, after the war many were executed as traitors. generally the volunteers from the western allies ie Britain, Canada and the us, were the minority. as i recall, the British ss contribution struggled to make 50 men
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The British Free Corps who had been recruited by the Nazis. The unit was originally known as The Legion of St. George Research by a British journalist, Adrian Weale,has identified about 59 men who belonged to this unit at one time or another, some for only a few days. At no time did it reach more than 27 men in strength – smaller than a contemporary German platoon.

Many of the British SS volunteers were weeded out as chancer's or trouble makers, it has also been suggested that some were ordered by MI9 to join. The ones who were accepted were allowed to keep to their own method of drill as trained by the British Army.

A chap I worked with was one of the Para's captured at Arnhem along with his best mate who was badly injured. He said his mate was sent behind the lines as soon as possible, while he was well treated.

My uncle Charlie with the 8th Army in Italy said that we always knew when we were up against the SS, they fought and they fought hard.
 
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