UK rights envoy to Iraq "shocked" at US

BlackJack

Active member
British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s human rights envoy to Iraq said on Friday she was “shocked” at photographs showing US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners in a Baghdad jail.

“I think they are absolutely terrible. I am shocked,” Ann Clwyd told BBC radio about the photographs shown on US television, some depicting grinning US troops posing with naked Iraqi prisoners in a variety of demeaning, sexual poses.

Ms Clwyd, a lawmaker from Mr Blair’s Labour Party who for many years campaigned over human rights under deposed dictator Saddam Hussein and backed the US-led war to remove him, said she had previously raised concerns with US officials about the treatment of prisoners at the Abu Gharib prison.

“I made the point that there must be answers, because I found it very difficult to get answers, and I was told by a very senior person there: ‘We don’t do this kind of thing’,” she said.

“Clearly the people in charge did not know this was going on.”

On Thursday a senior US military officer in Baghdad said that the general in charge of the US-run prison system in Iraq had been suspended after allegations of abuse meted out to detainees earlier this year.

Brigadier General Janis Karpinski was suspended in late January after six US soldiers were indicted for mistreating prisoners at the Abu Gharib prison, the officer said.

However Ms Clwyd said there was no comparison with how prisoners were treated under Saddam.

“A small number of cases, horrible though they are - you cannot compare that with the tens of thousands of people Saddam Hussein was responsible for executing and torturing,” she said.

Nonetheless, the pictures prompted distinctly negative coverage in some newspapers in Britain, Washington’s principal ally in the war and subsequent occupation of Iraq.

The right-wing Daily Mail splashed a picture of a hooded Iraq prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his hands across its entire front page.

“We are losing their hearts and minds,” was the unequivocal headline of the paper’s main editorial comment.
 
Place your topics in the correct forums, BlackJack. Military Discussions is for DISCUSSING topics, not jokes or news articles, unless backed with a position/argument of your own. Thank you.
 
They're idiots for taking photos in the first place. At least the Brits were smart enough not to take photos of their "misgivings" over there. :lol:
 
ok

Id say that the :lol: emoticon dosent fit here Rndersafe.


Now, Blackjack, you do know that the people who did this were not a representative of the Americans...Trust me, the brits are no more and no less moral then the americans.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118613,00.html

The Brits have had a problem with some of their own troops, as well.

Now the thing that should be most obvious to you, BlackJack, is that neither the United States military nor the British military are ignoring these actions, a proper and quick reaction to the situation has been made by both parties, and while I am not proud of the fact that such things happened, I am VERY proud to be part of a military which holds itself to a standard which will not abide behaviour like this. We are both professional militaries, and we require ALL of our service men and women to meet this standard.
 
Every

every millitary have made mistakes some worst then others all have tortured if you like it or not but this time it was a bad idea...this war is way to covered by the media for such "mistakes"...
 
ok

Ok,


every millitary have made mistakes some worst then others all have tortured if you like it or not but this time it was a bad idea...this war is way to covered by the media for such "mistakes"...


Listen, this is not a mistake by the US military....This is not a mistake at all. This is a crime commited by a few stupid SOBs who should pay.
 
A new rather interesting event in Iraq has reached the press now..
And it was actually the Brits this time....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3675723.stm

This does again prove my point that if you gather a large enough amount of people, from any country, then there will ALWAYS be a percentage of a-holes there....
 
A crime would be shoving bamboo up their nails. I will not put these soldiers on par with that - what they did was stupid, immature, and unprofessional. That being said, once the investigation is complete, I fully expect to see those responsible charged and tried for their actions. I do not, however, want to see these soldiers doing life making big rocks into little rocks. It is hardly a fitting punishment for stupidity and unprofessionalism.

I think what bothers me most about it all, are the excuses coming from the soldiers. And they wonder why people have such harsh opinions of the reserves/guard, the 10% always ruin it for everyone.
 
The people (refuse to call them soldiers) who did this represent the military about as much as the biggest SOB's you go to school or work with represent you.

Out of 130,000...no doubt you are going to have your fair share of theives, sex offenders and psychopaths. There's no way to avoid it. Everyone in the military know they exist. Unfortunatly, they often gravitate towards the type of jobs which allow them to commit those things which are in their heart. Being in a war atmosphere even gives them more opportunity.

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

It's really sad.
 
Arabess said:
The people (refuse to call them soldiers) who did this represent the military about as much as the biggest SOB's you go to school or work with represent you.

Out of 130,000...no doubt you are going to have your fair share of theives, sex offenders and psychopaths. There's no way to avoid it. Everyone in the military know they exist. Unfortunatly, they often gravitate towards the type of jobs which allow them to commit those things which are in their heart. Being in a war atmosphere even gives them more opportunity.

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

It's really sad.

These are soldiers. And they do represent the military. Every soldier, bad or good represents the military. We ALL (those of us in the military) pay for their mistakes on some level.

They behaved as wrecklessly and without forthought, unbefitting of their title - but it does not and will not change their title until/unless UCMJ action states otherwise.

It seems your judgement of these soldiers is rather harsh. I would not dare compare them to sex offenders nor psychopaths. As for your comment on being in a war atmosphere, have you ever been in one? Unless you have, ma'am .. there is no possible way for you to understand the type of stress that is put on a person, combat soldier or support soldier. It can and has been known to cause people to do things completely out of their character. While I do not support these soldiers in their bad actions, I will not judge their characters based on events that occured in a hot AO. I will, however, judge their actions as wrong and indefensable and in need of punishment (which they will recieve).

The problem here is a world and media who will take these 'few' and negatively judge the rest.

This has always been true of the media, and if they cannot find the "few" they will intentionally put a negative spin on any event to make the news.
 
Every solider in a War makes mistakes.

These "idiots"as someone put it, were totally stupid for taking the pictures, and doing the actual act.


But lets not compare them to Saddam Hussien, like the Arabs and the Democrats are trying to do. It all reality, they didn't do anything terribly wrong(they didn't kill anyone, or chop off their arms or such, like Saddam did)

They were fools to do it, and even more foolish to take the pictures. But don't compare what they did to the past.

It is also funny how everyone in the world can do bad shit, but the first time an american does something bad. The world is "shocked" and upset.

Do you know the total percent of the troops that did this?? I did the math and stopped way before I got the total answer:

But out of 135,000 US TROOPS
10 or less did this act

That comes out to a percentage of 0.01953125% of the total number of troops.
 
really

It all reality, they didn't do anything terribly wrong(they didn't kill anyone, or chop off their arms or such, like Saddam did)

Really...? Not so bad...? I agree there are worse things...,But, how would you react if those were US POWs being humiliated by arabs...? I think this is a horribel thing. All POWs deserve dignety, they served their country, just like any soldier.
 
Like I said before, I have seen a lot worse for frat pledges. Not defending their (the MPs') actions, but, come on, it ain't the huge thing everyone is making it out to be. Those responsible will be properly tried and punished, and life will go on. However, I think it is dangerous to hold ourselves up to someone like Saddam as a justification for their actions. Since this IS a quotes forum, here's one for you all:

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster...for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
 
Its a shame this has happened. The US is supposed to be there to liberate them from this exact type of thing.

This will hurt public opinion, and increase the danger and tension over in Iraq.

It takes just a few to slip up to tarnish the reputation of the majority.

Lazza.
 
In my view both RN and Lazza are right. but if Iraqi's new gov't gets to keep its legitimacy at the eyes of its people and they manage to take control over their territory by catching more and more guerrilla fighters and terrorists, by trialling Saddam and by enforcing a minimum of rule of law, then it's gonna be a victory. A victory that these scandals will have only slowed down a little. People are NOT against war, they're just against ii WHEN it doesn't work. Makes a huge difference.
 
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