The aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered to the Russian Navy instead o

R

rock45

Active member
Now this seems to be reverse pressure being placed either pay a little more and shut up already or our own navy will take the ship! India's a kind of stuck because the Mig-29K ordered. I think the two seat trainers were delivered and training started already. India doesn't seem to catch on if you don't like the food you don't go back, right? This project is almost three years delayed now with cost going up. The funny part is somebody in mid level government in India are telling there higher ups or leaders don't worry Russia good for it.
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A few others
*The fire control in the new T-90s had some problems. - so lets keep ordering them 300+ and counting.
*All the Mig-29 had massive problems when first ordered stories of tools found inside the aircraft and every one had one or more engine replacements. - so it was important to get that second squadron
*Sub launched missiles project, 8 or more failed test in a row - I don't even know how it ended.
*The first delivered Su-30K were late too part because of India changing there minds but also because of Russia production line issues.
* I'm sure if I looked I would find helicopter problems too because why would India a few months back be trying to buy 400 high priced helicopters from [SIZE=-1]Eurocopter [/SIZE]and not Russian equipment?
* I'm sure there's more but the post getting too long.

I don't like the food I don't go back.
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Quote
The aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered to the Russian Navy instead of going to India
Aircraft Carrier May Go to Russian Navy

 The aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered to the Russian Navy instead of going to India after modernization. A source within the Russian military-industrial complex told RBK that Russia and India are now reaching an agreement on changing the conditions of the 2004 contract for the ship's overhaul. Under that contract, India received the hull without charge on condition that it be modernized at Sevmashpredpriyatie. The value of that contract was $1.5 billion.
According to unofficial information, negotiations are currently underway to expand the value of the contract by about $1 billion. “That question is being worked out. If a compromise is not found with India, the aircraft carrier will probably be purchased by the Russian Navy,” the source said.

The Admiral Gorshkov was built in 1978 as the Baku. Its name was changed in 1991. It will be equipped with Russian-Indian Bramos missiles and Russian or Israeli air defense systems after modernization.

Link
http://www.kommersant.com/p-12082/r_527/
 
Not good news for the Russian arms industry either way. It seems their lack of reliability when it comes to anything more sophisticated than an RPG-7 is going to do some damage in terms of future orders.
 
I seriously doubt there are many systems from any country that don't have early release issues, I suspect this is why we have the saying "never buy the release model".
 
Carrier

It's not like Russia hasn't built one they have one operational it's there ships yards which can't seem to handle it. I break on them a little about the Mig-29s because you'll think about 20 plus years of making, fixing, and flying them that producing under 20 for India's carrier shouldn't be a problem, but there slightly late to. With all that oil and natural gas Russia has you would think they would have tons of money. Seems like such a strange place overall and to govern a country of that size is a huge feat.
 
I don't see it as that big a deal, the company I work for gets top ranked gear from all over the world and without fail it always turns up with some missing bits, incompatible parts, damaged components etc. at one stage I opened a parcel to find a Germans wallet included with the product.

I would imagine an aircraft carrier or fighter being as complex as they are would be no different, from what I am reading though it would appear that the Russians are not spending enough money on post production QC and customer relations as it seems to me that a lot of these issues could have been found in a pre-shipment check up.
 
production QC

MontyB
not spending enough money on post production QC and customer relations
Click to expand...
You have a very interesting way of looking at things but this has been a huge on going problem for years with Russian military arms industry. In ways there right on the cutting edge but and in many others areas completely lost and don't have a glue. They confuse the hell out of me.
 
India sending 100+ personnel to work on the 30 year old carrier in Russia

Yes India sending and I quote
India is sending more than 100 trained personnel from its shipyard to the Sevmash shipyard to join 1,200 Russian personnel who are working on that ship," a ministry official said.

Maybe the Indians and Russian shipyard workers could share happy shipyard stories and drink coffee and tea together? I'll keep you abreast of the Russian warn welcome to the Indians and of any black bread eating stories that will come out.
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India, Russia end spat over Soviet-era aircraft carrier

1 day ago
NEW DELHI (AFP) — India and Russia have ended a protracted dispute over the cost of a Soviet-era aircraft carrier which will be now sold at a higher price to the Indian navy in 2011, officials said Thursday.
Indian Defence Secretary V. K. Singh, returning from Moscow, said a new undisclosed price had been agreed for the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov.
Russian export firm Rosoboronexport in 2004 signed a deal to refurbish the carrier for 970 million dollars but last year demanded India pay an additional 1.2 billion dollars.
Singh declined to give details of the negotiations but conceded "there will be a substantial increase in the "reworked estimate" for the modernisation of the 30-year-old ship.
"The figure cannot be disclosed as the modified contract has to be put up to the union Cabinet and the cabinet committee on security for clearance," he told reporters in New Delhi.
"The modified contract would be signed by March end after teams from Russia visit here to finalise it," he added.
"There is no question of giving up the carrier and at no time had the Russians said that they wanted to reclaim the carrier."
Defence sources said India has agreed to pay up to 900 million dollars more for the carrier and added that a domestic shipbuilding yard was rushing experts to speed up the project.
"India is sending more than 100 trained personnel from its shipyard to the Sevmash shipyard to join 1,200 Russian personnel who are working on that ship," a ministry official said.
Secretary Singh said the Gorshkov will be rechristened INS Vikramaditya and join the Indian navy as early as 2011.
"The warship requires installation of new turbines, boilers, 2,500 kilometres (1,500 miles) of cabling and strengthening of its flight deck as part of the new retro-fitting to be undertaken on the carrier," he said.
"The carrier will be ready by 2010 after which it would undergo 18 months of sea trials."
Under the contract Russian shipyard Sevmash will equip the vessel with modern weapons, 16 MiG-29 fighter jets and a fleet of anti-submarine helicopters.
Admiral Gorshkov is to fill a vacuum left by the scrapping in 1997 of India's first aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which had been in service since 1961.
The Indian navy has only one operational aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, which is to be phased out in coming years.
The breakthrough on the deal came three months after Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh flew to Moscow on November 12 for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin on defence and political ties.
Russia accounts for 70 percent of Indian arms supplies but late deliveries, and commercial disagreements, have led New Delhi to use other suppliers such as Israel, Britain, France and the United States.
Russia is in a race with Western rivals for a 10-billion-dollar deal to sell 126 fighter jets, artillery worth two billion dollars and 317 helicopters worth a billion dollars to India.



Link
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g02hyHGJx4dNFNV270sFKxBNtH4Q
 
If it's gonna launch VTOL aircraft like I think it would, they might be better off modifying container ships. Put a flat top on top and use the cargo hold as a hangar.
Probably much cheaper that way.
 
No VTOL aircraft

No VTOL aircraft it's the same 30 years old aircraft carrier Russian having the problem trying to finish in the first place. Now the Indians who are paying Russia to overhaul this carrier in the first place now have to travel to Russia and fixed it themselves. India listen carefully to these directions " MOVE AWAY FROM THE CARRIER" How long before they get a clue I asked?
 
Now that we have given/sold the Indians one of our old large amphibs, lets make them a deal on one of the older LHAs so they can still use their Harriers.
 
Harriers

I believe India lost 16 out of there 32 Harriers bought and are having trouble fielding a squadron now. I just don't feel this old Russian carrier is the answer there are just too many "what if'" involved starting with it's future aircraft the Mig-29K. It's the ships main weapons platform for protection and for projecting power and doesn't have a good overall record. India should have the aircraft long before the ship so training up squadron personnel shouldn't be a problem one would think. Maybe somebody stronger in naval matters then I am can go over what India's going yo use to protect this carrier fleet wise.
 
Ignoring the obvious errors in grammar and syntax, as monty says, there are very few first release (or even 2nd or 3rd release) models that actually work properly. Look at MS Windows. Or for example, the RAN's Collins class submarines. Labeled as "dud-subs" for so long, but are now world leaders in the non-nuke sub class.
 
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